Beethoven Quotes

[Moonscore]

It's worthwhile bearing in mind that Beethoven himself was fond of quotes. He found this in Champollion's "The Paintings of Egypt," where it is set down as an inscription on a temple to the goddess Neith:

"I am that which is. I am all that was, that is, and that shall be. No mortal man has ever lifted the veil of me. He is solely of himself, and to this Only One all things owe their existence."

Beethoven had his copy framed and kept it constantly before him on his writing desk. "The relic was a great treasure in his eyes"--Schindler.

Wow. Absolutely fascinating. I love that Beethoven is not only remembered for genius works, but for an amazing life story as well. Everything I hear about him just speaks volumes about who he was and why he wrote like he did. I know that many great artists have interesting stories, but surely only a few can come close to the legends, myths, and stories surrounding the big B.

[Peter]

Wow. Absolutely fascinating. I love that Beethoven is not only remembered for genius works, but for an amazing life story as well. Everything I hear about him just speaks volumes about who he was and why he wrote like he did. I know that many great artists have interesting stories, but surely only a few can come close to the legends, myths, and stories surrounding the big B.

Yes we can learn a great deal about him from the quotes that inspired him - this one he copied from "The Iliad" into his diary (Tagebuch) of 1815

"My hour at last is come;
Yet not ingloriously or passively
I die, but first will do some valiant deed,
Of which mankind shall hear in after
time."--Homer.

[Quijote]

Yes we can learn a great deal about him from the quotes that inspired him - this one he copied from "The Iliad" into his diary (Tagebuch) of 1815

"My hour at last is come;
Yet not ingloriously or passively
I die, but first will do some valiant deed,
Of which mankind shall hear in after
time."--Homer.

Peter, if you don't mind me saying, this thread is what I admire less about your website, and reflects the 'Suchet' approach to LvB. I would like to thank you for the effort you have spent in creating such a site, and it stimulates some VERY VERY interesting comments about B's music in particular and music in general and for this reason alone deserves full credit. At times I think your site to be a more relevant source than many so-called musicological publications as it engages what really counts : we, the listeners, the 'consumers'. For what finally counts is just that, the interrelationship between composer and her audience, without which 'music' would be meaningless.

My 'objection' (too strong a term) to what I term the 'Suchet' approach to LvB is the 'cult of personality' that attaches to it. I do not deny for a moment that his story is fascinating, that he was a remarkable person. So was Wagner, so was Ghandi, so was Jesus, so was Hitler (fascinating, but horrific), so was Mozart and so on and so forth. I do believe that we sometimes tend (and I am equally guilty) to 'blur' these separate issues (the man/women, the music), but this tendancy is relected in part with certain threads that 'celebrate' the 'best of' mentality that permeates this site.

And so what? If this forum is where we 'celebrate' Beethoven (the man) and his music then fine and good. So long as it is essentially the music. What is revealing for me is that the forum seems to attract the 'spiritual brigade' and it is at this point that I begin to take issue, horrible 'Hanslickian-formalist' that I am (or should I have said 'Schenkerian'?). My problem (and it is really only my problem) is that I would like to see a more so-called 'objective' approach to the music. I do understand of course that many music lovers are not trained musicians or even musically literate (by which I DO NOT mean 'unmusical'), and perhaps if the forum became too 'technical' or 'specialist' the forum would lose members.

If I were to 'synthesise' my 'objections' (too strong a term), I would be delighted to see less of the 'Hi-Fi Buff' approach.

Please forgive me if I seem too harsh, as this is absolutley not my intention. I want to tell you Peter (and other committed forum members) that I enjoy this site to the full. You may think I am negative and 'contrary' (Mary, Mary, quite contrary ...), but I have always loved a good 'punch up'!

I like this forum. Well done, Peter, and well done all the others who contribute. Even PDG. And Sorrano. And Preston. And ... Megan (where she?).

Kisses. XXX

[PDG]

I like this forum. Well done, Peter, and well done all the others who contribute. Even PDG. And Sorrano. And Preston. And ... Megan (where she?).

Kisses. XXX

Even me!

What a curious fellow(?) you are, Philip. A composer and "her" audience? Using adjectives and then immediately adding "too strong a term" to them. Complaining that the site is not "high brow" enough, while at the same time making increasingly better jokes(!), and ending this mini-rant with kisses. What goes on?

[Moonscore]

Peter, if you don't mind me saying, this thread is what I admire less about your website, and reflects the 'Suchet' approach to LvB. I would like to thank you for the effort you have spent in creating such a site, and it stimulates some VERY VERY interesting comments about B's music in particular and music in general and for this reason alone deserves full credit. At times I think your site to be a more relevant source than many so-called musicological publications as it engages what really counts : we, the listeners, the 'consumers'. For what finally counts is just that, the interrelationship between composer and her audience, without which 'music' would be meaningless.

My 'objection' (too strong a term) to what I term the 'Suchet' approach to LvB is the 'cult of personality' that attaches to it. I do not deny for a moment that his story is fascinating, that he was a remarkable person. So was Wagner, so was Ghandi, so was Jesus, so was Hitler (fascinating, but horrific), so was Mozart and so on and so forth. I do believe that we sometimes tend (and I am equally guilty) to 'blur' these separate issues (the man/women, the music), but this tendancy is relected in part with certain threads that 'celebrate' the 'best of' mentality that permeates this site.

And so what? If this forum is where we 'celebrate' Beethoven (the man) and his music then fine and good. So long as it is essentially the music. What is revealing for me is that the forum seems to attract the 'spiritual brigade' and it is at this point that I begin to take issue, horrible 'Hanslickian-formalist' that I am (or should I have said 'Schenkerian'?). My problem (and it is really only my problem) is that I would like to see a more so-called 'objective' approach to the music. I do understand of course that many music lovers are not trained musicians or even musically literate (by which I DO NOT mean 'unmusical'), and perhaps if the forum became too 'technical' or 'specialist' the forum would lose members.

If I were to 'synthesise' my 'objections' (too strong a term), I would be delighted to see less of the 'Hi-Fi Buff' approach.

Please forgive me if I seem too harsh, as this is absolutley not my intention. I want to tell you Peter (and other committed forum members) that I enjoy this site to the full. You may think I am negative and 'contrary' (Mary, Mary, quite contrary ...), but I have always loved a good 'punch up'!

I like this forum. Well done, Peter, and well done all the others who contribute. Even PDG. And Sorrano. And Preston. And ... Megan (where she?).

Kisses. XXX

My apologies, but I don't really fully understand what it is, exactly, that you're suggesting. It sounded to me like you said that we shouldn't appreciate the lives and stories of influencial individuals intertwiningly with their work and that the entity and product are separate and apart. I'm afraid I cannot agree with that; a strong grasp of context can only enhance our appreciation for great art and I do not even feel that it needs example because it seems to always apply. It must be understood, of course, that most of us are not appreciating his music because of his stories, but vice versa. Regardless, they still work together and, at least to me, the circumstances and characteristics of an artist seem to be part of the heart of his or her music a good majority of the time.

This is probably not what you meant, but so many of your quotated terms (ex. "best of mentality", "spiritual brigade") went unexplained - perhaps there are past threads where these were defined - that not much else could be concluded for me. Is this a critique to the " Beethoven is end all, the end" kind of people? If so, how did we get there from the subject of this thread ?

Edit: In addition, I would question how realistic it is to expect an "objective" approach that is in accordance with composer status neutrality on a web site that is, essentially, a shrine to beethoven (which is why I love it).

[Peter]

Peter, if you don't mind me saying, this thread is what I admire less about your website, and reflects the 'Suchet' approach to LvB. I would like to thank you for the effort you have spent in creating such a site, and it stimulates some VERY VERY interesting comments about B's music in particular and music in general and for this reason alone deserves full credit. At times I think your site to be a more relevant source than many so-called musicological publications as it engages what really counts : we, the listeners, the 'consumers'. For what finally counts is just that, the interrelationship between composer and her audience, without which 'music' would be meaningless.

Thank you for your kind words Philip! We have to be practical here - in setting up this forum we could of course have narrowed the field enormously and insisted people post only on Beethoven's music (most of your own posts would have failed this criteria). This would immediately have the effect in my opinion of turning it into a dry, academic forum with declining membership. All sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds I think read and post here and they have different interests and approaches - all of which I would like to encourage. I'm interested not only in his life and music, but in the history of the times - social, political, artistic etc..
People experience Beethoven in different ways and he doesn't exist in an isolated bubble.

Now that discussing Beethoven's life is a subject you find irrelevant is a matter for you and I would suggest that you simply ignore such threads and concentrate on the areas where you are able to offer us your profound and provocative wisdom!

[Quijote]

Even me!

What a curious fellow(?) you are, Philip. A composer and "her" audience? Using adjectives and then immediately adding "too strong a term" to them. Complaining that the site is not "high brow" enough, while at the same time making increasingly better jokes(!), and ending this mini-rant with kisses. What goes on?

[Sotto voce] : Psst! PDG, 'objection' is a noun! Keep it to yourself.
[Louder, now] : You're right, I'll stick to the jokes. I'll have one for you later! Watch this space.

Calling me a 'curious fellow(?)' is the kindest thing you have ever said to me. Kisses.

[PDG]

[Sotto voce] : Psst! PDG, 'objection' is a noun! Keep it to yourself.
[Louder, now] : You're right, I'll stick to the jokes. I'll have one for you later! Watch this space.

Calling me a 'curious fellow(?)' is the kindest thing you have ever said to me. Kisses.

Yes, I didn't read you properly. I thought you were abjectively objecting, objectively. So, descriptive noun became adjective, in my abjectivity.