Barenboim on Beethoven Sonatas

[al1432]

I just received a boxed set of Barenboim's performances of the complete Beethoven Piano Sonatas (EMI Classics), and I am happy to say that thus far I am very pleased. I've only listened to about a quarter of the sonatas so far, but I'm impressed with Barenboim's playing, and wonder if anyone else has had opportunity to hear these CD's.

http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Comp...3884879&sr=1-2

I had read about his (sometimes extremely) slow tempos, especially on the already slow Adagios, and was afraid I might not care for his interpretations, but, to the contrary, I've found them to be very good. He is very expressive. The opening sections of the Allegretto (3rd mvmt.) of the Waldstein Sonata, for example, contain a combination of pianissimo, slow tempo, and sustain pedal, as to give the softer parts an effect nearly like that of the first movement of the Moonlight, something I have never heard before in any other interpretation of this sonata. Up to now, I've relied mostly on Brendel's performances, which I still find very pleasing, but Barenboim is something else again, for me a whole different way to hear the sonatas. (As an aside, I might add that the tone of his piano is very rich, whereas I have often found Brendel to be a bit on the tinny side).

Curious to hear other people's opinions of Barenboim the pianist.

--Al

[Sorrano]

His interpretations of Chopin Nocturnes rather turned me off. I didn't feel that there was appropriate dynamic differences where marked in the music. After listening to a little more than half of the Nocturnes he had recorded I couldn't listen to any more of them. Hopefully, his Beethoven interpretations will be much better.

[Michael]

You are right about the slow tempos in some of the works. The first Barenboim recording I bought contained Opus 10, No. 3, with the famous "largo e mesto" and he really dragged it out - well, after all, I suppose it is "largo"- and it really showed up the grinding dissonances near the end of the movement. That was the only very extreme tempo I noticed although I haven't a complete set of Barenboim.
I will always be grateful to him for his documentary series of 1970 called "Barenboim on Beethoven". It came just at the right time for me as I had just discovered classical music.I recorded the whole series with an old Grundig tape recorder, holding the microphone up to the T.V.
Barenboim was the new whizz kid on the block who had just brought out a complete set of the sonatas, so the documentaries mainly dealt with those, though he did some conducting. Above all, his blazing enthusiasm shone through as it still does today.
Incidentally, you mention the Brendel recordings as being on the tinny side. Are they on the Vox label? Those were his earliest recordings of the sonatas and the sound quality wasn't great.
His next cycle was on Philips and actually needs a bit of a treble boost but still remains my favourite version.

[Fidelio]

I would agree, the Brendel set is also a favourite of mine.

[al1432]

Incidentally, you mention the Brendel recordings as being on the tinny side. Are they on the Vox label? Those were his earliest recordings of the sonatas and the sound quality wasn't great.

Michael yes, the VOX Box set. However, I also have a DVD of him performing the Hammerklavier, and I have to say once again that the piano just does not sound "full bodied". I'm a bit mystified as to why this should be, but I can definitely hear a difference between Brendel on his Steinway and just about any other performer on their Steinway. Go figure!

Brendel still is my performer of choice, as his interpretations to my ears are well formed and fairly "neutral" in the sense that he tends to play what was written (contrast, by way of example, Arrau in the first movement of the Hammerklavier...I hear notes sustained an extra eighth-note where this is not indicated in the score; it's simply Arrau's own interpretation, but then we're getting more Arrau and less Beethoven in that case).

Barenboim has been a bit of an eye opener for me, though. I have sets of Arrau, Schabel, and Brendel, which all, despite somewhat large differences in style, play within a given set of tempi. Never have I heard things slowed down quite as much as with Barrenboim, but this often does afford one the opportunity to hear things (patterns in the music, "miscellaneous" notes, etc.) that might otherwise be glossed over. Not a bad experience, that. Of course, there again, it's more Barenboim and less Beethoven, but I like the effect as a change of pace (no pun)

As a side note, Barenboim does the complete sonatas in performance on DVD. I can't wait to see those...and they are rentable (on six DVDs) on Netflix!

[Quijote]

His interpretations of Chopin Nocturnes rather turned me off. I didn't feel that there was appropriate dynamic differences where marked in the music. After listening to a little more than half of the Nocturnes he had recorded I couldn't listen to any more of them. Hopefully, his Beethoven interpretations will be much better.

Interesting comment from Sorrano, who reveals an 'absolutist' approach to the score / its performance. (My following comments rely heavily on 'The Beethoven Quartet Companion', edited by R Winter and R Martin, University of California Press 1994, p136).
The key (revealing) point in Sorrano's posting is that there were no appropriate dynamic differences where marked in the score. Part of the problem lies in the terminology : 'appropriate' or 'corresponding'? That is mere semantic hair-splitting (on my behalf). More important, how much do (or should) performers believe that particular indications in the score are to be taken as 'gospel' or as 'indications', or as Robert Martin says, "... as providing performance options or advice rather than pointing to something integral to the work?"

Does Sorrano feel the (Chopin) interpretation defective from the viewpoint of non-respect of the written text, or deficient in other aspects? The question is really quite fundamental, as it is a question that continues to exercise musicians and musicologusts alike.

[Sorrano]

Basically I was frustrated by the lack of dynamic range from pp to ff. I think that the music of Chopin warrants a wide range, much wider than what Barenboim gave it. But then, that is my opinion. Then, Philip, should a performer ignore the dynamic markings? Beethoven might try and kill the performer that would ignore his markings but another composer might be intrigued. I do not think Chopin's markings to be simply "indications" to be ignored or followed at the performer's whim.

[DavidO]

As a side note, Barenboim does the complete sonatas in performance on DVD. I can't wait to see those...and they are rentable (on six DVDs) on Netflix!

I'm working my way through those now. It took me awhile to warm to Barenboim. I felt initially that his technique was sometimes shaky; but he's spirited. I'm not very familiar with his recordings from younger days, but I'll look into it. The Beethoven performance DVD I've enjoyed the most the past year or so is Piotr Anderszewski's Diabelli Variations with commentary.

[Quijote]

I'm working my way through those now. It took me awhile to warm to Barenboim. I felt initially that his technique was sometimes shaky; but he's spirited. I'm not very familiar with his recordings from younger days, but I'll look into it. The Beethoven performance DVD I've enjoyed the most the past year or so is Piotr Anderszewski's Diabelli Variations with commentary.

I would be fascinated to hear what Anderszewski has to say about the Diabelli. I will definitely have to get the DVD you refer to, DavidO. Does he say things radically different to Kinderman and Solomon?

[AlexOv]

I have recently been lucky enough to see, on the arts tv channel that is part of Mr Fox's pay tv system, almost all of the sonatas played live in Berlin (I think) by Maestro Barenboim. It was great. His playing is, in the sense of the "no second chance" that you have in a live performance of anything, second to none, in my view, and you are welcome to argue with me, if you wish. OK, sometimes he would not bring out some minor melody. Maybe he would play some movement faster or slower than so and so. Who cares? This is a human being - just like you and me - playing, almost without fault, and almost always with a great deal of emotion, every note of many thousands that must be put together for each sonata to work as Beethoven intended. And you should have seen him sweat! When rivers are pouring down your face and dripping off your chin, but you cannot, cannot wipe off the smallest of them, well, that is what I call self control. Could you do it? What a joy it is that we have such towering figures to inspire us!

Al1432, treasure your collection and make the most of it. Wear it out!

[Ateach Asc]

Barenboim is a skilled musician... and very accomplished at that.

Unfortunately, his egocentricity and personal arrogance destroy his ability to sensitively and appropriately interpret the music he is showcasing.