Classical Radio

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Excuse me, Rod, if this is a rather obvious
question, but, what is a free beer shampoo?
Also, what did you hear at this concert?
Joy

A beer shampoo, dear Joy, is when someone pours a pint of beer over your head. Bearing this in mind it leave it to your good self to judge the nature of the music I was listening to.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Immortal Beloved]

Originally posted by Joy:
On Thursday the classical radio station had a 'listener's choice' day where people all week were calling in and requesting their favourite tunes. Well, I'm happy to report Beethoven was the overall #1 requested composer and 'The Moonlight Sonata' was the #1 requested song. A far back second was Tchaikovsky's '1812 Overture' and Vivaldi's 'Four Seasons' (Summer) probably because it's summer here in sunny AZ and hot!!!
Joy

That's cool! On Beethoven.com you could request from email, and listen while on the air with no interruptions.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
A beer shampoo, dear Joy, is when someone pours a pint of beer over your head. Bearing this in mind it leave it to your good self to judge the nature of the music I was listening to.

Oh, I get it now. Jeez, that was obvious, wasn't it?
Joy

[dice45]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
No, 2 monthes are not AT ALL a lot to study the first mvmt of the Mondschein.... But it takes a life long to give back all the deep feelings in it.... The second mvmt is a jewel, not easy at all, and the third ask a solid virtuosity, good nerves and, and, and... You were lucky to hear the all sonata on radio : here, at FRANCE MUSIC, except for the concerts, we do hear "parts" of works... They are speaking more than sending music. So we call France Musique "France Parlote" (slang word for Parler -speak-).

(For the administrators : I read all your exchanges with pleasure about all the topics, even if I do not send a message... your comments are so good that it is not necessary, most of the time, to say more !)

Hello Claudie and all,

1st, I want to share your praise to the administrators.

2nd, classical radio:
Who ever is within the transmitting range of Ö1 (Radio Austria 1) and is awake at night should not miss Österreich 1 Klassik Nacht from midnight or 1 am to 5 am.
They send whole works and sometimes news, but they never interupt works for that.
The choice of interpretations is just wonderful in most cases and gave me a lot of hints and inspirations already.
They do not hesitate to play old stuff (not supporttred by the music industry), I had several opportunities to listen to Edwin Fischer playing Bach and Beethoven on Ö1 !
Wonderful

They avoid the sweetish crap that Classic FM and Klassik Radio use to play all the time (one one movement per opus of, course).

I used to call Klassik Radio titbit radio (Häppchen Radio) for that. Among relatives and buddies, the term sticks (grin).

Radio Bavaria 4 also broadcasts classical music all the time, they always play whole works. But unfortunately they are on a mission to bring unknown and better-forgotten contemporary composers to the masses. They also got a nasty name: forefinger radio (Zeigefinger-Radio).
Oh, I forgot. They have a back-up mission: to bring better-forgotten singers to the masses.
Most of my relatives and buddies avoid B4.
And the nasty name sticks.
Of course, they sometimes bring wonderful stuff, too. But better don't wait for it while the radio is torturing you with the other stuff.

Greets,
Bernhard

[PDG]

So, Bernhard, it's two fingers up to Forefinger Radio?

[dice45]

Originally posted by PDG:
So, Bernhard, it's two fingers up to Forefinger Radio?

Do not get the pun, sorry.
I meant one finger up and erected only (no, not the middle finger, the finger right beneath the thumb). Lecturing/smartassing style (VBG).

I stick with Ö1 whenever I can.
Greets,
Bernhard

[Claudie MICAULT]

Thank you so much Bernhardt about all the radios you mention ! I will search them.... Even if normally I am sleepy at 1am !

Claudie

[dice45]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
Thank you so much Bernhardt about all the radios you mention ! I will search them.... Even if normally I am sleepy at 1am !

Claudie

Hello Claudie,

this afternoon I listened to a transmission about the conductor Felix v.Weingartner at Ö1. I knew befor this conductor had a very good reputation for Beethoven, so I was very curious. They played 1st mvmnt of the 6th symphony, the the 4th, then the 3rd piano concerto and as a final, the 5th symphony.

In 1933 the Zeitgeist was a different one. Today no producer would consider to release such a recording. So dark, so completely lacking of brightness in sound and feeling, to utterly intense and honest and unspectacular, so much deep emotion.

I loved it and it was true Beethoven all the way, every bar, everay single note. The 5th symphony could have had best chances to become my favourite 5th at once, hadn't I known the incredible, breathtaking Koussevitzky recording before which remains my preferred interpretation.

But even with this comparison in the back of my mind, this 5th played by Weingartner simply was fantastic. Undoubtable, both Weingartner and Koussevitzky share the same Zeitgeist and the same approach to Beethoven.

What I observed with my buddies, relatives, acquaintants: If I play a wonderful (to my ears) Beethoven record to them, they try to escape, unwilling to face this level and detailedness of emotion. If I play some Beethoven recording of today to them, they say "Oh how nice, what composer is it?" or those who know me better "Oh how nice, isn't that Beethoven?" .

Most of them are really happy with the stuff
Klassik Radio (tidbit radio)is delivering.
And I, I sit here at home, at my computer and drawing around on my fancy tonearm design which is meant to ouptperform other tonearms and I wish, I had nothing but an old grammophone and it would be the year 1933 with most of these artists alive and performing.

Greets,
Bernhard


[This message has been edited by dice45 (edited 06-16-2001).]

[This message has been edited by dice45 (edited 06-16-2001).]

[Michael]

Bernhard,
It's nice to know that somebody has some respect for the old masters. Beethoven is a composer that is open to a million interpretations - whether one considers it too fast or too slow or whatever, the music always transcends its current interpretation.

Michael

[dice45]

Originally posted by Michael:
Bernhard,
It's nice to know that somebody has some respect for the old masters. Beethoven is a composer that is open to a million interpretations - whether one considers it too fast or too slow or whatever, the music always transcends its current interpretation.

Michael

Hello Michael,

thank you for your kind words.
But as far as a million interpretations and the claim that Beeethoven always transcendents is concerned, I am afraid I have to object.

Let me first state that I do not generally believe old interpretations always to be good ones and not interpretations of today generally bad ones. Dunno which recording of JSBach's Kunst der Fuge I prefer, the Walcha (organ) from the late 50ies or the Moroney (harpsichord) from 1985; I really cannot decide.

There are good and bad interpretations and really bad ones can make the listener doubt to which sort of music he is listening to.

Around 1985, there was this brilliant, famous Yugoslavian pianist playing Beethoven's op.111. My brother-in-law decided I have to own the record I am frequently complaining about and gave it to as gift. A mean gift and I forced him to sit down at once and listen to my preferred interpretation and the one in question, both in full length.

After that session, my brother-in-law apologized for the gift (he had presumed I do not know the recording) and agreed that the Yugoslavian pianist's play was poking with a pole in the fog and moreover poking at wrong direction, it was as he said "a copper full of coloured laundry" ("Ein Kessel Buntes", a derogatory phrase for nothing fitting together).

In the last 15 years I applied this comparative listening quite a few times to different buddies, some of them did not even know before what sort of music I was playing, some knew the opus quite well.
Any of them was coming to the same preference and all of them had derogatory remarks about the recording in question; those who did not know the opus wondered whether this could be Tchaikovsky, Schumann, Debussy, Schubert, Ravel, Mendelsohn-Bartholdy; noone could settle on one composer. The recording I preferred got remarks like "this is Beethoven, gosh, is this a marvelous Beethoven", "how whole, how integral", "I am crying ..."
I was stunned how unanimous the decision always was, no matter what background the particular buddy had.
My preferred performance was done by Solomon, BTW.

Recently I made this sort of comparison with Beethoven 5th also, but not with a very bad and a very good recording like described above; we compared the Koussevitzky and Erich Kleiber which I consider to be the 2nd best recording (together with Weingartner and Leibowitz). IMO, the difference in quality was slight if not faint although I prefer the Koussevitzky recording.
To my surprise, in all five cases my buddies shared my preference but much more decided than I did.

From those two examples I feel compelled to claim that there are discrepancies in quality, apart from questions of taste.
I do firmly believe (like Edwin Fischer did, BTW) that re-creation, post-creation of a given work can provide access to the work or impede the access completely for the listener.

In this context it seems unimportant which sort of instrument the musician is using. He has to transform the work, the idea into sound how he understands and feels it. No matter whether he may use a pianoforte, a Steinway, a Moog synthesizer, if he succeeds then it is a valuable performance.

I once heard a rock musician (playing Hammond organ and Moog) at a local concert warming up and bringing himself into the right mood playing the 1st mvmnt (Arietta) of op.111 on the Hammond organ, using all typical sound properties like driving the amplifier into distortion.
He knew how Beethoven has to sound and he knew how to transform this into sound on his Hammond organ. So he succeeded in making Beethoven translucent. A valuable performance.

Greets,
Bernhard

[Claudie MICAULT]

WEINGARTNER ??? KOUSSEVIZKY ??? I must immediatly found your radio station !!!!!!!
Personnally I love old recordings, but if a new one brings me something, I am able to accept it and recognize the virtues of it. Sincerely I think the performers are very responsible of the all the matter. I prefer an old recording with a sincere and "inspired" performer than a perfect CD with a "cold" one... And sometimes the new tehcnic of recording "correct" to much things and it becomes "too perfect"... for me.

[dice45]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
WEINGARTNER ??? KOUSSEVIZKY ??? I must immediatly found your radio station !!!!!!!

It is Radio Austria and I recieve it at 90.95MHz (terrestrial). Enjoying it in mono at 10 to 20% power (sometimes barely receivable) means quite something for an audiomaniac like me.

Personnally I love old recordings, but if a new one brings me something, I am able to accept it and recognize the virtues of it. Sincerely I think the performers are very responsible of the all the matter. I prefer an old recording with a sincere and "inspired" performer than a perfect CD with a "cold" one... And sometimes the new tehcnic of recording "correct" to much things and it becomes "too perfect"... for me.

Yes, I understand what you mean.
But we should not mix up age and bad recording work and bad performing work .
Each of them has nothing to do with either of the other two.

BTW, if the recording had no spirit while it was happening, the recording engineer has no spirit to ban on the tape. I presume you like those old recordings becuase of their spirit and what of this was left on the tape.

Sometimes you can find breath-taking performances which are also sonically exceptional: take Davitt Moroney playing JSBach's Kunst der Fuge on the harpsichord for instance.

I hinted this recording to my friend Manfred as CD (not telling him it existed vinyl, too) for musical reasons only and he came back with
"You didn't tell me what a sonic blockbuster this is!!". Well, it is ...

Moroney in general a 1st adress for JSBach performances. Who is able to complete the last uncompleted fugue of the Kunst der Fuge in a way you do not find the exact place where Bach's writing ended if you did not know it before or have the score right in fromt of you, well, this performer sure digs Bach...

Greets,
Bernhard

[This message has been edited by dice45 (edited 06-18-2001).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by dice45:
Yes, I understand what you mean.
But we should not mix up age and bad recording work and bad performing work .
Each of them has nothing to do with either of the other two.

BTW, if the recording had no spirit while it was happening, the recording engineer has no spirit to ban on the tape. I presume you like those old recordings becuase of their spirit and what of this was left on the tape.

Sometimes you can find breath-taking performances which are also sonically exceptional: take Davitt Moroney playing JSBach's Kunst der Fuge on the harpsichord for instance.

I hinted this recording to my friend Manfred as CD (not telling him it existed vinyl, too) for musical reasons only and he came back with
"You didn't tell me what a sonic blockbuster this is!!". Well, it is ...

Moroney in general a 1st adress for JSBach performances. Who is able to complete the last uncompleted fugue of the Kunst der Fuge in a way you do not find the exact place where Bach's writing ended if you did not know it before or have the score right in fromt of you, well, this performer sure digs Bach...

Greets,
Bernhard

[This message has been edited by dice45 (edited 06-18-2001).]

Hello, Bernhard,
I heard something yesterday on my classical radio station that you might have been interested in. They played the Fifth Sym. performed by the Berlin State Opera Orchestra conducted by Richard Strauss recorded in 1928. A historical performance. It was a bit scratchy but excellent to listen to.
Joy

[Claudie MICAULT]

Hello Bernard,
Yes you are right... but I have a friend you record CD (EMPIRE MASTER SOUND BRUSSEL) and I heard under his hands of technician very "flat" musicians who became great : to change technically, the "dynamique",the "nuances", the sound, the breathes to have them better is now very easy for a good technician (look what one can do with a computer !!!). So that is why I am more moved by old recordings : when it is great I know that depend only of the performer and come from his soul and capacities. Thanks : I have found Radio Austria !!!

[dice45]

Hello Claudie,

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
Hello Bernard,
Yes you are right... but I have a friend you record CD (EMPIRE MASTER SOUND BRUSSEL) and I heard under his hands of technician very "flat" musicians who became great : to change technically, the "dynamique",the "nuances", the sound, the breathes to have them better is now very easy for a good technician (look what one can do with a computer !!!). So that is why I am more moved by old recordings : when it is great I know that depend only of the performer and come from his soul and capacities.

I personally would doubt even the best recording technician can turn a flat, blunt, spiritually meaningless recording into a great one, a touching one. Oh yes, he can do amazing things make the soul-less stuff sound more spectacular, more sparkling.

But for the person receptive for the emotional and spiritual message, he cannot re-create such a message if it is not there.

If I listen to Solomon (or Arthur Schnabel) playing one of the Beethoven piano sonatas, particularly the Appassionata, the Hammerklavier, the op.111, the very first chords hit me like a car accident, like the high voltage suddenly switched on. The same with John Coltrane when he blows the very first note.

I doubt the recording or mastering engineer can fix it if such a message is missing. The spiritual presence works at once while the sound fixes may take some time to unfold their influence or more probable make one wonder (me being hard-core audiophile, having experienced this before ) why, oh why, such a brilliant recording technique or sound has been wasted on such a crappy performance.

I rather would guess that you like those old performances (the good ones, of course) BECAUSE noone tried "to fix it in the mix later" (no matter what technical means he used). I know I do.

Thanks : I have found Radio Austria !!!

Pleasure.

Greets,
Bernhard