New news about lead in LBV's hair ->death

[Peter]

An equally interesting response, Gardibolt. Care to elaborate?

Just look at the ridiculous immortal beloved theory for your answer!

[Cetto von Cronstorff]

Dear TiberiaClaudia (hereafter referred to as 'TC'), for an enlightening explanation of the term 'Samothracian', please read Maynard Solomon, 'Late Beethoven, Music, Thought, Imagination', University of California Press 2003. Solomon raises an intriguing hypothesis : that in calling Schindler a 'Samothracian' LvB was inferring that the Swindler was a homosexual.

Codswallop. The records prove that in 1831 Schindler was living in Vienna together with his girlfriend Apollonia Stepan.

[Quijote]

Codswallop. The records prove that in 1831 Schindler was living in Vienna together with his girlfriend Apollonia Stepan.

Quite possibly codswallop, CvC. And of course any man living with a woman is proof positive of heterosexuality, is it not? I frankly don't care if Schindler the Swindler was gay or not; I am more intrigued by the reaction to Solomon in general.

[DavidO]

I frankly don't care if Schindler the Swindler was gay or not; I am more intrigued by the reaction to Solomon in general.

I found myself growing impatient with Solomon's psychoanalytical approach early on (in the 2nd edition). Solomon seems to base virtually everything that happened to or with Beethoven -- whether it was composition or social interaction with friends & family or psychosexual "crises" -- on Beethoven's Oedipal conflict with his father (as Solomon sees it). All this psychological surmising was so constant in the biography that I felt it came at the expense of the objective biographical data (simple timelines, for example, which give the reader his bearings) I was hoping for. But Solomon also seems disingenuous: his reasoning in several portions of the book leads to the conclusion that Beethoven was homosexual or bisexual, & yet Solomon never actually says so, or even "closes" the conclusions he so carefully engineers.

Apart from that, I don't think Solomon's verbal style is pleasant or pretty. I felt as if I were slogging through rhetoric that was needlessly opaque.

I read the book about two years ago. I plan on reading it again shortly, but I'm not especially looking forward to it. I far preferred John Burk's "Life & Works of Beethoven," which is admittedly more demotic.

[Cetto von Cronstorff]

Quite possibly codswallop, CvC. And of course any man living with a woman is proof positive of heterosexuality, is it not?

Well, certainly! Just as Solomon's argument proves the opposite

Schindler was buried here. His grave is gone.

[Quijote]

[QUOTE=Cetto von Cronstorff;38667]Well, certainly! Just as Solomon's argument proves the opposite

Schindler was buried here. His grave is gone.

I also have some very boring photos to show you. Care to see them?

[Quijote]

vC's photo

Sorry, some problems with my posting above. I wished simply to respond to CvC's photo (the point of which escapes me); I reiterate :

I too have some boring photos to show you. Care to see them?

[Sorrano]

Cetto, please explain what you mean by "Schindler was buried here. His grave is gone." Do you mean the grave marker or has his bones been moved? But yet he is buried there? Or did you mean that he *was* buried there?

[AlexOv]

Gees,

I sure am glad I was overseas at the time and did not get to listen, as it were, to any of the lively, shall we say, discussions that followed my posting of that newpaper article. Only today did I rediscover the post and am astounded at the length and tone of all the discussions. At least something good came of it... The link to that ebook looks pretty interesting.

Someone -Peter?- mentions the fact that most of those conversation books have not been translated into English. Isn't that surprising? After almost 200 years for some of them and for even more for others? You would have thought that with such ongoing interest in Beethoven, some bilingual scholar would have thought of doing it. It seems a bit rotten that only readers of German get to know them.