Bridgetower and a tuning fork!

[Peter]

Below are some interesting links about George Polgreen Bridgetower - the man who met Beethoven in 1803 in a memorable incident concerning the Kreutzer sonata. On this occasion of their meeting Beethoven presented him with his tuning fork which is now in the British library - so you can hear this probably for the first time - certainly a new Beethovian sound for me - perhaps it deserves a catalogue number!

mms://audio.bl.uk/media/tuningfork.wma

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/featu...ngforklge.html

http://www.bl.uk/onlinegallery/featu...ridgetower.pdf

[Joy]

That was pretty interesting actually. I've never heard it before either. What will we come up with next? Thanks.

[Michael]

I wonder did Beethoven have perfect pitch?

[Joy]

I wonder did Beethoven have perfect pitch?

I don't know about that, but I heard he was quite the batter!

[Michael]

I don't know about that, but I heard he was quite the batter!

I thought my jokes were bad!

[Peter]

I wonder did Beethoven have perfect pitch?

I've not read that he did, but of course that doesn't mean anything! He certainly would have had absolute pitch though which explains how he was able to compose without 'hearing' the results in later life.

[Michael]

Peter, what is the difference between "perfect" and "absolute" pitch. (I tried to save you the trouble by Googling but I ended up more confused.)

[Preston]

Peter, what is the difference between "perfect" and "absolute" pitch. (I tried to save you the trouble by Googling but I ended up more confused.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_pitch

[Michael]

Thanks, Preston. I actually opened that article but I thought it wasn't answering my question but I read it more carefully now.

[DavidO]

I don't have absolute, or perfect, pitch. But I've conducted a little experiment with my internal "pitch" many times over the years, & have always got the same results: I try to hum or sing what I think is Middle C, & then I run over to my piano & locate the tone. It is ALWAYS the B immediately below Middle C. I mean ALWAYS. For years, I've done this, & it's always that B. I may go days away from a piano or anything that would externally reference the tone in my singing, but once I hum that tone, it's always the same tone -- B!

So I guess I can always hum that note & just go up a half-step & get my Middle C that way. Do any of you do this, too?

[Michael]

The nearest I have come to anything like that is, at the end of a movement, being able to hum (in the correct key) the opening note of the next movement before it begins. (Am I making sense?) It doesn't always work but if I know the piece well it usually does. No doubt I will be told that everybody can do this!

[Joy]

I thought my jokes were bad!

Well, I guess we have that in common!

[Hofrat]

According to the British Library website, Beethoven's tuning fork was tuned relatively high. This dove-tails with the prevailing practices in Beethoven's time. In and about 1750, concert pitch was A. By 1800, concert pitch had moved up to Bb. As a matter of fact while the orchestras in Beethoven's Vienna tuned to Bb, orchestras in Salzburg were tuning to A.

[Preston]

I once read that J.J. Quantz invented a flute that had a higher pitch than a regular flute, and felt that orchestra's should be tuned that way. Supposedly, Mozart supported the idea. I have read that Mozart wasn't fond of the flute, but if he wasn't fond of it then why would he want an orchestra tuned by the flute and use the flute in his music?

[Peter]

According to the British Library website, Beethoven's tuning fork was tuned relatively high. This dove-tails with the prevailing practices in Beethoven's time. In and about 1750, concert pitch was A. By 1800, concert pitch had moved up to Bb. As a matter of fact while the orchestras in Beethoven's Vienna tuned to Bb, orchestras in Salzburg were tuning to A.

Concert pitch has a quite variable history and it was only in 1939 that it became standardised.

1640 Vienna Franciscan Organ A457.6

1699 Paris Opera A404

1711 John Shore's tuning fork, a pitch of A423.5 He invented the tuning fork, one of which still exists today.

1780 Stein, for Mozart, A421

1780 Organ builder Schulz A421.3

1714 Strasbourg Cathedral organ A391

1722 Dresden's chief Roman Catholic church organ A415

1759 Trinity College Cambridge organ A309

1762 Stringed instruments at Hamburg A405

1772 Gottfried Silbermann built the organ in the main Roman Catholic church in Dresden, and it had a pitch of A 415 at the time.

1780 Organ builder Schulz A421.3

1780 Stein's tuning fork A422.6

1751 Handel's own fork A422.5

1800 Broadwood's C fork, 505.7, which is about half a semitone lower than that of today

1811 Paris Grand Opera A 427

1812 Paris Conservatoire A440, as modern pitch

1813 George Smart adopted for the Philharmonic Society the pitch of A423.3.

1820 Westminster Abbey organ and possibly Paris Comic Opera used a pitch of A422.5.

1828 Philharmonic Society A 440

1834 Vienna Opera A 436.5

1835 Wolfels piano maker A443

1836 Pleyel's Pianos A446

1846 Philharmonic pitch was A452.5 (very high) which lasted till 1854

1846 Mr Hipkins piano tuner (Meantone) A433.5 (Equal) A436.0

1849 Broadwood's medium pitch was A445.9 which lasted till 1854

1860 Cramer's piano makers of London A448.4

1862 Dresden Opera A 440

1871 Covent Garden Opera House A 440

1877 Collard's piano maker standard pitch was A 449.9

1877 St. Paul Cathedral organ A446.6

1877 Chappell Pianos A455.9

1877 Mr Hipkins piano tuner A448.8

1878 Her Majesty's Organ A436.1

1878 Vienna Opera A447

1879 Covent Garden Opera A450

1879 Erard's factory fork 455.3

1879 Steinway of England A 454.

1879 British Army regulation pitch for woodwinds A451.9

1880 Brinsmead, Broadwood, and Erard apparently used a pitch of A455.3

1880 Steinway may have been using a pitch of A436. According to Steinway of New York, 1880 is right around the time they switched from three piece rims to the continuous rim that is used today. So it is unlikely the pitch was any higher before 1880, yet Steinway of London had a fork A454.7.

1885 In Vienna a pitch of A435.4 was adopted at a temperature of 59 degrees Fahrenheit for A.

1885 At an international exhibition of inventions and music in London a pitch of A452 was adopted.

1896 Philharmonic pitch A439, giving C522

1925 On the 11th of June the American music industry adopted A440.

1936 American Standards Association adopted A440.

1939 At an international conference A440 was adopted.