Tuning during op.131

[~Leslie]

Where do you get off Rod? Chopin was a virtuoso.~

[Claudie MICAULT]

No Rod, the piano of BENEDETTI-MICHELANGI was perfectly tuned before the concert : he was travelling with his own "accordeur". I think it was a "caprice de Diva" to ask a re-tune between two mvmts of CHOPIN's sonata.

It doesn't disturb me when they re-tune the piano during the interval : I am a singer and it is very disturbing to sing with an out of tune piano. And when I can, during the pause I am going to drink something too !
(if I do not sing : a good beer... If I sing, hélas, just water... of course if they bring me Champagne I never refuse -and sing better after-)

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Claudie

[Joy]

Originally posted by Rod:
Of course it didn't bother anyone - it was the intermission! (and the audience was doubtless too busy getting drunk).

Ha! Ha! Very funny!!!

[Luis]

Hi guys it's been a long time...

It's great to see how the forum has improved in the last months with many new members and lots of posts. Unfortunately I didn't have the time neither to post nor to visit the site too often and until a month I'll still be terribly busy.
Anyway, I see that you are discussing about op. 131 and questions about its live performance. And guess what, I’m going to a concert of that qt. the next week (I’m attending to great concerts these days, among others I saw last month the BBC SO, the NYPO and on august I’m going to see Zubin Metha and the Israel PO performing Mahler’s 5th. From Beethoven I only saw his Kreutzer sonata by Uto Ughi, an Italian violinist who owns a Stradivarius that belonged to Kreutzer himself!).
Anyway, since the people of the theater don’t check the tickets too much I can “opt” between the two dates. (I do this all the time ) One option is op. 131 and the other is op. 135. I can’t really decide between these two; globally, I like op. 131 more but I love the 3rd mvt of op. 135 like no other mvt from a B string qt. So I though I could chose by taking account of the other works that are going to be performed (by the Hagen qt. by the way). But since I don’t know any of these works I come to you for some advice.

1)
Beethoven: qt. op. 131
Wolf: Serenade italiane
Bartók: qt. No. 2

2)
Beethoven: qt. op. 135
Schumann: qt. No. 1
Bartók: qt. No. 2

So, which one would you chose?
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It’s good to read you again

Luis

[Peter]

Originally posted by Luis:

1)
Beethoven: qt. op. 131
Wolf: Serenade italiane
Bartók: qt. No. 2

2)
Beethoven: qt. op. 135
Schumann: qt. No. 1
Bartók: qt. No. 2

So, which one would you chose?
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It’s good to read you again

Luis

Hello Luis, good to hear from you. Looks like you're stuck with Bartok whatever you do, so it comes down to Wolf or Schumann. I don't really know either of those works, though I have heard the Italian serenade a long time ago - obviously it made little impression! I think I would go for the first option as you get more Beethoven for your money - then I'd leave after the interval!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Since you think Beethoven Sonatas can only be performed on period pianos, I wonder if you've given Chopin the same curtesy and listened to his music on the instrument of his choice - Pleyel? I suspect you are judging Mozart, Schubert and Chopin on modern instruments - I recall you saying that even Beethoven meant nothing performed on modern pianos and that you only appreciated his music when performed on period instruments.

On various occasions I have stated words to the effect that what goes for Beethoven in the regard goes for the others such as Mozart and Schubert, Hummel, Weber etc, (eg Mozart should sound better on a Walter than a Steinway), all of whom I have heard on authentic instruments. However with respect to these composers, the transformation produced seemed to be less than with Beethoven's piano music to my ears - Beethoven really making the most of the instrument, whereas with the others this is not so much the case. A fortepiano does not guarantee good compositions with regard to these other men - if anything it reveals B's supremacy to an even greater extent.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 06-30-2001).]

[Roehre]

When one watches a string quartet performance, the players always take the opportunity to re-tune inbetween movements. I've not seen the Quartet, op.131 performed, but clearly re-tuning is not possible since the work is designed to be performed as one long movement. Studio trickery aside, how do the musicians manage to stay in tune to the very end during live performances? If they can manage this easily, then why do they feel the need to re-tune during other, shorter, less demanding works?

There is one moment in opus 131 where the movements don't follow each other attaca: the fermate at the end of the 4th movement.
A pause there can be satisfyingly made here without disturbing the flow of the music, as I've seen being done twice: The Brittens did so and AFAIK the Alban Berg still do so as well (at least both quartets did so during concerts I was lucky enough to being able to attend).

[PDG]

I have half the LvB quartets performed by the Alban Berg on old VHS tape, and some of the tuning between movements seems very painstaking. I find it interesting that the audience remains quiet during this procedure, almost as if the tuning is part of the performance (which in a way, of course, it is)...