Tuning during op.131
When one watches a string quartet performance, the players always take the opportunity to re-tune inbetween movements. I've not seen the Quartet, op.131 performed, but clearly re-tuning is not possible since the work is designed to be performed as one long movement. Studio trickery aside, how do the musicians manage to stay in tune to the very end during live performances? If they can manage this easily, then why do they feel the need to re-tune during other, shorter, less demanding works?
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Interesting point, and I've no idea!Originally posted by PDG:
When one watches a string quartet performance, the players always take the opportunity to re-tune inbetween movements. I've not seen the Quartet, op.131 performed, but clearly re-tuning is not possible since the work is designed to be performed as one long movement. Studio trickery aside, how do the musicians manage to stay in tune to the very end during live performances? If they can manage this easily, then why do they feel the need to re-tune during other, shorter, less demanding works?
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself' -
that is strange, but intresting.Originally posted by PDG:
When one watches a string quartet performance, the players always take the opportunity to re-tune inbetween movements. I've not seen the Quartet, op.131 performed, but clearly re-tuning is not possible since the work is designed to be performed as one long movement. Studio trickery aside, how do the musicians manage to stay in tune to the very end during live performances? If they can manage this easily, then why do they feel the need to re-tune during other, shorter, less demanding works?Comment
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I heard this piece performed live at the Queen Elisabeth Hall in London. The ensemble (whose name I have long forgotten) seemed to suffer not from tuning problems as far as I can remember. I can only talk from experience with my Gibson SG. When I string it correctly, it stays in tune for days, if I am lazy and do a 'rush job' I need to tune it constantly.Originally posted by PDG:
When one watches a string quartet performance, the players always take the opportunity to re-tune inbetween movements. I've not seen the Quartet, op.131 performed, but clearly re-tuning is not possible since the work is designed to be performed as one long movement. Studio trickery aside, how do the musicians manage to stay in tune to the very end during live performances? If they can manage this easily, then why do they feel the need to re-tune during other, shorter, less demanding works?
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
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Er, thanks guys......although I'm absolutely none the wiser! Rod, I didn't know that Gibson made violins
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Well, I play the violin (badly, of course), and it needs tuning quite often. I doubt, however, that it MUST be tuned between movements of a string quartet. Once in the beginning should be quite good enough. When the instuments are tuned between movements, it is probably more of a "just to be sure" kind of thing. If the movements are all connected, as in this piece, that certainly does not mean the instruments will be out of tune by the end of it.Comment
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Very interesting, Rod!Originally posted by Rod:
... I can only talk from experience with my Gibson SG. When I string it correctly, it stays in tune for days, if I am lazy and do a 'rush job' I need to tune it constantly.
I once heard a violinist claim such; he was very much into harmonical relations such as regarding in which intervals different frequencies, different natural resonances in our world are related to each other, from the circulation time of an electron to the circulation time of a planet and everthing in between. He had the strong opinion that all those natural resonances are in tune, are multiples of natural numbers and the intervals we know from the tone scale.
He also claimed that there exists a perfect pitch which then is in tune with nature. And he claimed if his instrument is tuned to this pitch and tuning is done with the necessary devotion and listening to the inner ear, the instrument stays in tune for a very long time.
I tends to believe this; one of my school buddies complained about his tuning fork; so we measured it's resonant frequency and it was in tune, but at wrong pitch.
I know another story: when a harmonical scientist recorded the Om-singing of Tibetian monks in different monasteries, he later measuered the frequency the monks had settled on and it turned to be the same frequency to the precision of several digits after the decimal devider on all different recordings; the limit of measurement clearly was the constancy fo the tape recorder's tape speed.
As if the monks had an atomic clock in the belly which they sure didn't have!
Buddha said: the world is dance.
So I tend to believe this harmoncal stuff
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Greets,
BernhardGreets,
BernhardComment
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Thanks. Since a quality instrument should stay in tune during a complete performance, I'd rather they didn't 'check' the tuning inbetween movements. This dischordant screeching can easily take away from the enjoyment & impact of a composition. I play in a band, & I can't imagine the annoyance of audiences if we re-tuned guitars after every song. Horses for courses, I know, but nevertheless........Originally posted by Chris:
Well, I play the violin (badly, of course), and it needs tuning quite often. I doubt, however, that it MUST be tuned between movements of a string quartet. Once in the beginning should be quite good enough. When the instuments are tuned between movements, it is probably more of a "just to be sure" kind of thing. If the movements are all connected, as in this piece, that certainly does not mean the instruments will be out of tune by the end of it.Comment
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Besides, the strings don't tune between every movement or even every piece at an orchestra concert or opera.
And anyway, if the strings do slip out a little, a competent player will be able to adjust for that by where he places his fingers on the strings.Comment
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Very, very interesting... I always thought it was a question of quality of the instrument (some pianists also would love to re-tune during a performance, and I heard a concert with BENEDETTI-MICHELANGELI in Italy where his "accordeur" worked on the piano between to mouvements of the second CHOPIN's sonata)...
It disturb me when performers re-tune during a concert, it cuts the "atmosphère".ClaudieComment
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I agree absolutely, regarding the piano it definitely should not have been done during the concert - these things are to be done before. If Beethoven could continue with broken strings (and no doubt some out of tune ones also) I'm sure the odd key out of tune today can be tollerated. Personally I think perhaps the Chopin sonata may actually have been improved with an out-of-tune piano.Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
Very, very interesting... I always thought it was a question of quality of the instrument (some pianists also would love to re-tune during a performance, and I heard a concert with BENEDETTI-MICHELANGELI in Italy where his "accordeur" worked on the piano between to mouvements of the second CHOPIN's sonata)...
It disturb me when performers re-tune during a concert, it cuts the "atmosphère".
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
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Last year when I saw a performance of "The Appassioniata" right after this sonata was the intermission and they came out on stage to retune the piano during this time. It didn't seem to bother anyone.'Truth and beauty joined'Comment
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Of course it didn't bother anyone - it was the intermission! (and the audience was doubtless too busy getting drunk).Originally posted by Joy:
Last year when I saw a performance of "The Appassioniata" right after this sonata was the intermission and they came out on stage to retune the piano during this time. It didn't seem to bother anyone.
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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod CorkinComment
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I beg your pardon?Originally posted by Rod:
Personally I think perhaps the Chopin sonata may actually have been improved with an out-of-tune piano.
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Since you think Beethoven Sonatas can only be performed on period pianos, I wonder if you've given Chopin the same curtesy and listened to his music on the instrument of his choice - Pleyel? I suspect you are judging Mozart, Schubert and Chopin on modern instruments - I recall you saying that even Beethoven meant nothing performed on modern pianos and that you only appreciated his music when performed on period instruments.Originally posted by Rod:
Personally I think perhaps the Chopin sonata may actually have been improved with an out-of-tune piano.
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'Man know thyself''Man know thyself'Comment
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