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    Questions about Symphonies' recordings

    Since LVB symphonies' are a frequent topic of discussion often with questions arising when discussing other issues, I'd like to ask you some questions to share views. I'm willing to listen to the symphonies for some days, since (some of you may find it curious) those are among LvB works I've paid less attention, since I've been more focused on chamber music and piano concertos.

    So let's see:

    What do you think about the Savall/Concert des Nations recording of the 3rd? I've read really bad critics, describing it as superficial, unsensitive...

    And about the 1962 Karajan/BP cycle? From comments in this forum as well from other sources, I have the impression Karajan's recordings seem quite controversial.

    Do you think Abbado's cycle is that radically different from Karajan's one or perhaps could be more applicated to the last years of Karajan in the BP? I've even read in an spanish magazine that it represented the clearing away of the cobwebs made by Karajan. Don't you think the difference perhaps obeys more to the current movement that puts the stress in the historical fidelity, more than artistical differences or a real determination to sever ties with a past "modus interpretandi"?

    Which historical recordings would you recommend? Yesterday I started listening to the 7th (Abbado, Karajan and Toscanini) and Toscanini's (one of those BBC remastered recordings, it was a live performance by the BBC orchestra at Queen's Hall in 1935) was really energic, passionate (perhaps the 3rd movement was even too fast I'd say "hurried up").

    Is Gardiner set recommendable as period instruments recording?

    #2
    The Savall is of historical interest because he tries to emulate the forces used at the first Lobkowitz private performance - for this performance the string section had only 3 first violins, 3 second violins, 2 violas, 2 cellos and 3 double basses! The result is of course a much thinner sound but greater clarity. Having said that it is not my favourite recording of the work, especially when you consider later performances of the Eroica during Beethoven's lifetime used much larger forces.

    I prefer Eliot Gardner to Harnoncourt, except for the 9th where I think Gardner's tempi are too fast in the first movt regardless of Beethoven's metronome! Another set you might consider for period instrument is the Hanover band, good all round recordings at a reasonable price.

    For historical recordings Toscanini is definitely my choice. As for Karajans 62 cycle, there are some fine moments here, but overall I would pick individual conductors for individual works - Carlos Kleiber for 5th and 7th, Bohm for 6th, Christoph von Dohnanyi for the 9th.
    'Man know thyself'

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      #3
      Thanks a lot! Regarding Savall, I understand that you not share the criticism about the recording that I mentioned...

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by atserriotserri View Post
        Thanks a lot! Regarding Savall, I understand that you not share the criticism about the recording that I mentioned...
        Well you'll have to be careful here as it is one of those that you will either love or hate. On the plus side the tempi are pretty much spot on and there is a great clarity of parts, you hear things you didn't know existed before unless you read the score! However if you like your Beethoven big and powerful and are used to the fuller sound it will come as a shock. It is certainly a different approach and I'm pleased I have it, but give me George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra any day!
        'Man know thyself'

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          #5
          Originally posted by Peter View Post
          It is certainly a different approach and I'm pleased I have it, but give me George Szell and the Cleveland Orchestra any day!
          I'm reading many positive comments about Szell in this forum; I've only listened to the a radio broadcasting of a live Emperor piano concerto performance Gulda/Szell/...Wiener Philharmonic? And my memories are "big and powerful" as you said.

          Comment


            #6
            I'm collecting the Osmo Vanska recordings. So far he's done 3,4,5,8, and 9.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Peter View Post
              ...Carlos Kleiber for 5th and 7th...
              Vienna Philharmonic or Bavarian State Opera? VPO, I presume (asked him innocently while browsing cduniverse.com... )

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by atserriotserri View Post
                Vienna Philharmonic or Bavarian State Opera? VPO, I presume (asked him innocently while browsing cduniverse.com... )
                Yes VPO, I don't know the Bavarian State Opera recording.
                'Man know thyself'

                Comment


                  #9
                  Another set well worth considering (certainly at the amazing price) is Herbert Blomstedt and The Dresden Staatskapelle.
                  'Man know thyself'

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I like David Zinman conducting the Tonhalle Orchestra of Zurich. He uses the New Barenreiter Edition scores which are most illuminating as to Beethoven's intentions.
                    "Is it not strange that sheep guts should hale souls out of men's bodies?"

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                      #11
                      Yes Hofrat I'm quite intrigued by these and have considered purchasing -which of the symphonies stand out do you think in this set? From samples I've heard the tempo of the 4th first movt did seem mighty fast!
                      'Man know thyself'

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Peter View Post
                        Yes Hofrat I'm quite intrigued by these and have considered purchasing -which of the symphonies stand out do you think in this set? From samples I've heard the tempo of the 4th first movt did seem mighty fast!
                        Dear Peter;

                        The 5th symphony stands out because of the repeat of the trio in the 3rd movement.


                        Hofrat
                        "Is it not strange that sheep guts should hale souls out of men's bodies?"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Peter View Post
                          For historical recordings Toscanini is definitely my choice. As for Karajans 62 cycle, there are some fine moments here, but overall I would pick individual conductors for individual works - Carlos Kleiber for 5th and 7th, Bohm for 6th, Christoph von Dohnanyi for the 9th.
                          Have you listened to Solti? I'm buying many records this days as presents and for me, since my "reference" music shop is closing and they sale their entire stock at ridiculous prices for recurring clients (yes, I'm one of those). One shop assistant mentioned me Sir Georg, but I don't know anything about his Beethove besides one catalogue he showed me in which something like "in conducting Beethoven, he held that the symphonies should be played with all their repeats to maintain their structural integrity...".

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Peter View Post
                            For historical recordings Toscanini is definitely my choice. As for Karajans 62 cycle, there are some fine moments here, but overall I would pick individual conductors for individual works - Carlos Kleiber for 5th and 7th, Bohm for 6th, Christoph von Dohnanyi for the 9th.
                            Have you listened to Solti? I'm buying many records this days as presents and for me, since my "reference" music shop is closing and they sale their entire stock at ridiculous prices for recurring clients (yes, I'm one of those). One shop assistant mentioned me Sir Georg, but I don't know anything about his Beethove besides one catalogue he showed me in which something like "in conducting Beethoven, he held that the symphonies should be played with all their repeats to maintain their structural integrity...".

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by atserriotserri View Post
                              Have you listened to Solti? I'm buying many records this days as presents and for me, since my "reference" music shop is closing and they sale their entire stock at ridiculous prices for recurring clients (yes, I'm one of those). One shop assistant mentioned me Sir Georg, but I don't know anything about his Beethove besides one catalogue he showed me in which something like "in conducting Beethoven, he held that the symphonies should be played with all their repeats to maintain their structural integrity...".
                              I've liked all of the Beethoven recordings of Solti that I've heard.

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