Questions about Symphonies' recordings

[Peter]

I only have Solti's 9th (the 70's version) which is very fine, especially the last movement. The adagio is perhaps a bit laboured.

[Peter]

Another set to consider is Abbado and the Berlin Philharmonic - like Zinman he also uses the Barenreiter Edition. I've read good reviews of this set, but compared to Zinman they are much more expensive. Anyone else heard this set?

[Gurn Blanston]

Peter,
Is this a release on CD of the same set that is available on DVD? Recorded in Rome, I believe. In any case, I have the DVD set and find it very well done, highly enjoyable. Watching is just so cool!


Atserri...
As for a few of the other rec's, I too am quite fond of the Zinman/Zurich set. Fine playing, and the tempi suit me to a "T". If you are listening to clips, try to find one of the 7th. Nice job there. The '63 Karajan is a good cycle, I am surprised by the negative reviews you cite, the only one of the set that doesn't sit well with me is the 6th, and I have inserted the Böhm that Peter mentioned (it's on a DGOriginal with Schubert 5) in its place.

For authentic instrument recordings, I have Hogwood, Gardiner, Harnoncourt, Norrington and Hanover Band/Goodman. My favorite is Gardiner. I like certain performances in the others, but just overall, if I can only have one of them, it will be the Gardiner.

Another set that you really need to look at is the relatively new MacKerras cycle. It is really quite fine, hard to drive a wedge into it anywhere. I am very pleased to have it.

Can't really comment on any other historic recordings beyond the Karajan, simply because I have no taste whatsoever for post-Romantic claptrap, crappy sound, lack of repeats, major cuts of material, or any of the various other concessions that one has to make simply to hear some hotshot conductor for long ago perform Beethoven incorrectly.

Cheers,

[Peter]

Gurn yes I think the Abbado is the same as the DVD set. I agree with you with Eliot Gardiner for period instruments - particularly outstanding are his 2nd and 7th symphonies. His 9th is variable, I find the first movement lacks 'maestoso' but the finale is superb. I'm not convinced by the 3rd movement of his 5th especially the trio which seems poorly articulated and at that tempo is almost a scrabble - however overall I think it is a fine set that outdoes its HIP competitors.

I'm not surprised you don't warm to Gardiner's 6th - I've yet to hear a successful period instrument account of this - Bohm remains my choice as well.

I think I'll end up with different conductors for different movements!

[atserriotserri]

Another set to consider is Abbado and the Berlin Philharmonic - like Zinman he also uses the Barenreiter Edition. I've read good reviews of this set, but compared to Zinman they are much more expensive. Anyone else heard this set?

Peter, I have the Abbado cycle (Berlin Philharmonic, 2000). I think he recorded previously the symphonies with the VPO. I'm listening to it right now (I've listened to 1st, 2nd & 3rd).

I'm listening now symphony per symphony all versions I've got (all 1sts, all 2nds...), and keep in mind that is my first listening and that I assume that I'm not the most qualified opinion in this forum (as I mention from time to time).

First the cons, what I consider unconceivable, the sound. It sounds to me distant enough to perceive that distance but sometimes, specially in passages where winds predominate, the treble saturates. I found it quieter, more calmed than Karajan.

Good points? Coherent. On the booklet I've found very interesting comments about tempi (and for you with deep musical knowledge, exactly where and how the lets aside Del Mar edition for his own conception, for example) that perhaps may make this set as one of those having highest artistical coherence (but since I'm listening symphony per symphony and I'm not familiar to the symphonies I can't tell right now). The orchestra transmit a sense of real cohesion. The fidelity to the sources makes that the orchestra is reduced...

[atserriotserri]

Peter,

Can't really comment on any other historic recordings beyond the Karajan, simply because I have no taste whatsoever for post-Romantic claptrap, crappy sound, lack of repeats, major cuts of material, or any of the various other concessions that one has to make simply to hear some hotshot conductor for long ago perform Beethoven incorrectly.

Cheers,

If the DVDs you mention are recorded in Rome, are not the same than the cds, recorded in Berlin.

About historic recordings... nice example of texan clarity

[susanwen]

Today I received the Minnesota Orcheestra, Osmo Vanska version of Beethoven's Ninth. I listened to it twice, straight through. I think this is a great recording. Intense, with just the right balance of volume, crescendos, emotions. If you get a chance to hear this performance, don't miss it.
- Susan

[Peter]

Today I received the Minnesota Orcheestra, Osmo Vanska version of Beethoven's Ninth. I listened to it twice, straight through. I think this is a great recording. Intense, with just the right balance of volume, crescendos, emotions. If you get a chance to hear this performance, don't miss it.
- Susan

Thanks for that Susan, I'll certainly look out for that one. For me the greatest 9th has to be Ferenc Fricsay and the Berlin Philharmonic - a stunning performance if ever there was one!

[JA Gardiner]

I hear such good things about the Vanska cycle but I've not heard any of it yet. However I have just listened to Haitink's recording of the 9th with the LSO which is very powerful - I particularly like the way that the final movement and the Ode feel properly integrated into the whole thing instead of being over highlighted as the main event to the detriment of the other movements as they seem to be in some interpretations. And you remember i said I'd feel as if I'd died and gone to heaven if i could find a recording of the 9th by Kleiber? Well I'm almost there - I've found one by Erich Kleiber that has the sort of expansiveness and attention to detail as well as the pace that his son became noted for. A great performance although I wasn't greatly impressed by the Ode to Joy as the soloists - especially the men - seemed very mannered and over ornate in that sort of gargly ,fruity, style that seems to have been more in operatic vogue early last century. This recording is from 1952 though so its not that early! I'm sure Carlos wouldn't have tolerated it!

[Peter]

Peter, I have the Abbado cycle (Berlin Philharmonic, 2000). I think he recorded previously the symphonies with the VPO. I'm listening to it right now (I've listened to 1st, 2nd & 3rd).

I'm listening now symphony per symphony all versions I've got (all 1sts, all 2nds...), and keep in mind that is my first listening and that I assume that I'm not the most qualified opinion in this forum (as I mention from time to time).

First the cons, what I consider unconceivable, the sound. It sounds to me distant enough to perceive that distance but sometimes, specially in passages where winds predominate, the treble saturates. I found it quieter, more calmed than Karajan.

Good points? Coherent. On the booklet I've found very interesting comments about tempi (and for you with deep musical knowledge, exactly where and how the lets aside Del Mar edition for his own conception, for example) that perhaps may make this set as one of those having highest artistical coherence (but since I'm listening symphony per symphony and I'm not familiar to the symphonies I can't tell right now). The orchestra transmit a sense of real cohesion. The fidelity to the sources makes that the orchestra is reduced...

Yes I understand Abbado was far more scholarly in his use of the Del Mar edition than Zinman, and therefore it probably is a truer account. Certainly a set to look out for. I'd be interested to hear your final comments on this recording when you've reached all your 9ths!

[Harvey]

What do folks here think of Simon Rattle's cycle? I just got it and am liking it quite a bit.

[Fidelio]

Hate it! This and the Thielemann’s set are not for me. Rattle's newest version with the BPO are a much needed improvement.

Look out for Philippe Jordan and the Vienna Symphony complete cycle. Nos 1,3 2,7 4,5 are already released. The cycle will complete in 2020 of course. These are my current go to recordings at the moment.

[Harvey]

Hate it! This and the Thielemann’s set are not for me. Rattle's newest version with the BPO are a much needed improvement.

Look out for Philippe Jordan and the Vienna Symphony complete cycle. Nos 1,3 2,7 4,5 are already released. The cycle will complete in 2020 of course. These are my current go to recordings at the moment.

The Rattle set gets mixed reviews. I'll keep an eye out for that Jordan set to be completed.

[Harvey]

I like David Zinman conducting the Tonhalle Orchestra of Zurich. He uses the New Barenreiter Edition scores which are most illuminating as to Beethoven's intentions.

Ha! I am listening to the Zinman cycle right now!

I last listened to Vanska and thought it pretty good but the Ninth was not my favorite.

Anybody like Norrington's new second cycle at Stuttgart?

[Albert Gans]

Does anyone know the Jos van Immerseel/Anima Eterna cycle? Quite impressive, if you ask me. Noboduy's mentioned the Fürtwängler cycle (50s, I think) for the vintage series, either.
I have Zinman/Tonhalle, too. It took some doing to get to like it, because a lot of it is unusual, but I do appreciate nowadays. Very driven.