Diabelli Variations

[Leonard]

I am not attending this Forum since long time, so I apologize if my question has been already discuted. Does anybody know what was Beethoven's opinion on his Diabelli Variations? Thank you

leonard

[Rod]

Originally posted by Leonard:
I am not attending this Forum since long time, so I apologize if my question has been already discuted. Does anybody know what was Beethoven's opinion on his Diabelli Variations? Thank you

leonard

Off hand I for one can't recall reading anything from B relating to his opinion of the quality of this composition. I can only presume he was satisfied with the finished product!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Leonard]

Originally posted by Rod:
I can only presume he was satisfied with the finished product!

I imagine. But you know every composer has some preference amongst his works. And sometimes (Beethoven too) one is simply satisfied, but does not think he made an incredibly deep masterpiece. So I was curious to know what B.thought about his Diabelli V.ions. Was he simply satisfied, or did he look at them as one of his deeper and beautiful works (like the Missa Solemnis, for example)?

leonard

[Peter]

Originally posted by Leonard:
I imagine. But you know every composer has some preference amongst his works. And sometimes (Beethoven too) one is simply satisfied, but does not think he made an incredibly deep masterpiece. So I was curious to know what B.thought about his Diabelli V.ions. Was he simply satisfied, or did he look at them as one of his deeper and beautiful works (like the Missa Solemnis, for example)?

leonard

Like Rod, I'm not aware that B made any specific remarks relating to this work other than referring to Diabelli's theme as a 'Cobbler's patch'. Since the work is the greatest set of variations written, it's hard to imagine B not being satisfied with it - he was pretty discerning regarding the merits of his work and would have been fully aware of his achievement.

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'Man know thyself'

[PDG]

Well, he certainly knew they'd end up being published without any problems! Beethoven described himself as an ass for writing his C minor variations, yet I find this work very appealing.

[Michael]

Originally posted by Peter:
Like Rod, I'm not aware that B made any specific remarks relating to this work other than referring to Diabelli's theme as a 'Cobbler's patch'. Since the work is the greatest set of variations written, it's hard to imagine B not being satisfied with it -

I think we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black! In an early piano trio, WoO36 (which will be coming up soon on your home page) the middle movement is very similar to Diabelli's theme. I wonder did B recall it when he wrote the variations?

Michael

[PDG]

Originally posted by Michael:
I think we have a case of the pot calling the kettle black! In an early piano trio, WoO36 (which will be coming up soon on your home page) the middle movement is very similar to Diabelli's theme. I wonder did B recall it when he wrote the variations?
Michael

Are you sure you mean WoO 36? These are 3 quartets, not one trio! Which middle movement? I can't detect any theme similar to Diabelli's.

[~Leslie]

He called the Diabelli Variations a Schusterfleck. Whazzat? Is that the cobbler's patch? ~

[PDG]

Yeah, Les, that's the German translation. 1 a.m. here (zzzzzz......); how are you?........

[~Leslie]

Been fine, Peter. I've been writing lyrics to a Chinese Opera, in English, of course. And reveling in the latest karmic chess move in Washington. <g>

So, I take it "Cobbler's Patch" is a metaphor.

[PDG]

A metaphor it is. How does schusterfleck translate into Chinese?

[PDG]

It's interesting that when writing the Diabelli Variations, LvB drew on a study by Archduke Rudolph, which consisted of 40 variations on a Beethoven theme. This was published in 1819, with a dedication to LvB. Does anyone know this work? Does anyone know of any other pieces which were dedicated to Beethoven?

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PDG (Peter)

[Michael]

Originally posted by PDG:
Are you sure you mean WoO 36? These are 3 quartets, not one trio! Which middle movement? I can't detect any theme similar to Diabelli's.

Sorry! I meant WoO 38, which is an early piano trio in E flat. The unusual thing about it is that all three movements are in the same key. The middle movement is described as a scherzo and that is the one that is so like Diabelli's theme.
Apparently a "cobbler's patch" is a derogatory term used by musicians to describe a theme that uses "literal sequential phrases involving modulation".
I think the main theme from the middle movement of WoO38 does just that!
Apologies again for wrong number.

Michael



[This message has been edited by Michael (edited 05-29-2001).]

[PDG]

Very interesting, Michael. Yes, that movement is very similar to Diabelli's. I wonder why he put all 3 mvts in the same key?

In case no one noticed it before, is anyone also able to shed light on my questions of two posts back? Thank you in advance!

[Michael]

Originally posted by PDG:
It's interesting that when writing the Diabelli Variations, LvB drew on a study by Archduke Rudolph, which consisted of 40 variations on a Beethoven theme. This was published in 1819, with a dedication to LvB. Does anyone know this work?

I am almost certain that a recording of Archduke Rudolph's variations was issued not too long ago. You could try searching Google.
Also, as I'm sure everybody knows, "schusterfleck" in Chinese is rendered thus: €€##~*^^^¬¬`.

Michael