The Eroica Symphony

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
My head was always going to be safe, if this was not to be so I would not have put it on the block. The executioner was in fact I myself, and, fortunately for you, you have saved your own head!

Even with my criticism of the woodwind ! I've listened through again and I should be more specific and single out the flutes as I find the other woodwind instruments are fine. It just seems as though the flutes are a little weak in tone quality compared to the oboes, clarinets and bassoons. That is my only criticism of an otherwise superb performance. It is wonderful to hear the work stripped of overblown Romantic excesses - it comes alive and breathes!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Even with my criticism of the woodwind ! I've listened through again and I should be more specific and single out the flutes as I find the other woodwind instruments are fine. It just seems as though the flutes are a little weak in tone quality compared to the oboes, clarinets and bassoons. That is my only criticism of an otherwise superb performance. It is wonderful to hear the work stripped of overblown Romantic excesses - it comes alive and breathes!

I thought you were only critisising the recording balance! I suppose I'll let you off with just the removal of one hand. Flutes of this type have a mellower, less cutting sound compared to the modern counterpart, whereas with the other woodwind instruments the comparative situation is somewhat reversed. I like the old flute's very earthy sound, especially with chamber music, even though the instument is technically far simpler.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Bejoyaditya]

I'm afraid I'm not satisfied with the answers to my question What is the connection between the "Eroica" and a bank? The question appeared in a music quiz and I thought of referring to this site after having racked my brains for the right answer which will be provided by the quiz master on the 24th of June.

[Michael]

Could it be that the Eroica was used in a T.V. advertisement by some bank or other?

M.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Bejoyaditya:
I'm afraid I'm not satisfied with the answers to my question What is the connection between the "Eroica" and a bank? The question appeared in a music quiz and I thought of referring to this site after having racked my brains for the right answer which will be provided by the quiz master on the 24th of June.

Then you may find my original answer to your question was the right one! - You can't complain about the answers here until June 24th! Please enlighten us on that date!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I thought you were only critisising the recording balance! I suppose I'll let you off with just the removal of one hand. Flutes of this type have a mellower, less cutting sound compared to the modern counterpart, whereas with the other woodwind instruments the comparative situation is somewhat reversed. I like the old flute's very earthy sound, especially with chamber music, even though the instument is technically far simpler.

I appreciate your leniency - I am aware that flutes of B's time have a mellower sound, but that does not get away from the point that occasionally important flute parts are lost. People tend to think of the brass instruments as being inadequate in historic performances - I don't find this at all in this recording, but the flute is occasionally the black sheep to my ears.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

I frequently find the flutes to be the weakest link in period instrument recordings.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
I frequently find the flutes to be the weakest link in period instrument recordings.

Of course I disagree. Beethoven obviously thought not also, otherwise he would have added a few extra flutes in his orchestral scores!!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Of course I disagree. Beethoven obviously thought not also, otherwise he would have added a few extra flutes in his orchestral scores!!

I think I'm getting more used to this mellow flute sound - I listened again to the 1st movement and had no problem this time with the flutes. I think it is a question of getting used to this new sound. The only problem I had was my dusty old score covering my trousers in red dye! The performance is so full of life and vitality - it certainly is my favourite recording of the Eroica.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I think I'm getting more used to this mellow flute sound - I listened again to the 1st movement and had no problem this time with the flutes. I think it is a question of getting used to this new sound. The only problem I had was my dusty old score covering my trousers in red dye! The performance is so full of life and vitality - it certainly is my favourite recording of the Eroica.

I've always said the metronome marks are wholely reasonable when used in the manner B himself directed, and that period instruments and practise are the most appropriate, and in this recording the orchestra even uses the correct temperement and pitch. B's dynamism and unparalled understanding of tone colour demands that the old ways be restored.
It's all quite simple when you think about it...why Beethoven recordings are not all like this these days is a total mystery to me. The ultimate proof is in the hearing. I aquired an almost perfect (or rather as perfect as one can expect) Handel collection in under 2 years...there is little confusion here with interpretation (the period movement won in the '80's without a fight), with Beethoven it's 15 years and still counting!! One day this Eroica performance will be the minimum standard...I hope.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
One day this Eroica performance will be the minimum standard...I hope.

I agree - has this guy recorded any of the other Symphonies?

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I agree - has this guy recorded any of the other Symphonies?

I've looked in vain!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Of course I disagree. Beethoven obviously thought not also, otherwise he would have added a few extra flutes in his orchestral scores!!

Nonsense! Adding more of something that is bad would not help in the least

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
Nonsense! Adding more of something that is bad would not help in the least

I don't think you can describe the old Flute as bad, only different. There is no way Beethoven would have included a bad instrument in his orchestra in the first place, otherwise we might expect to find the tin whistle or a barrel organ. The more I listen to this version of the Eroica, the less I am bothered by the flute - I simply think it is a question of adapting to a more mellow tone. I for one am so impressed by this approach to the Eroica, that I'd go out tomorrow and buy the rest of the Symphonies with Jordi Savall. They seem surprisingly elusive though!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 06-04-2001).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I for one am so impressed by this approach to the Eroica, that I'd go out tomorrow and buy the rest of the Symphonies with Jordi Savall. They seem surprisingly elusive though!

On reflection I'm not too worried about the other symphonies, the Hanover band does pretty well with the others, only their opening Allegro con brio for the 3rd was too lame for my taste, being 2 mins longer than Savall's interpretation. Their Coriolan is just as good, at least, as Savall's. If you haven't tried this set I suggest you do - it's so cheap in London you can use the disks as coffee mats in the unlikely event that you don't like the music!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 06-04-2001).]