Duet for 2 Violins in A major, WoO 34

[Chris]

I have never heard this piece, and I was wondering something about it. It is really just for two violins or are there other instruments that provide accompaniment?

------------------
"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." - Mark Twain

[Michael]

WoO34 is a "late" period work but it's only 19 seconds long! It was written in 1822 for the French violinist, Alexandre Boucher and it is for two violins only.
WoO35 is another short piece (26 seconds), entitled Canon in A major and the CD booklet says "probably for two violins". It was written in 1825 and inscribed to the Dutch painter Otto de Boer.
B. wrote a much more substantial piece in 1796-7 for the unusual combination of viola and cello. It is known for its whimsical title: "DUET WITH TWO OBLIGGATO EYEGLASSES" (WoO 32). It is believed to have been written for B's friend, Baron Zmeskall who was an accomplished cellist while B himself had played the viola at the Bonn court. Both men wore spectacles, so the title looks like something B himself would have put on it! There are only two movements, the first is a fine allegro, nearly nine minutes long, followed by a shorter allegretto. I think there is some doubt about the second movement actually belonging to the first, but I'm not sure about this.
Incidentally, there was a query in a music magazine a few years ago as to what was the shortest piece of music ever written. The magazine suggested a bagatelle from Beethoven's Opus 119 which was 9 to 11 seconds long, depending on the performer! I'm sure somebody will come up with something shorter.

Michael

[Chris]

Hmmm...so duets can have any number of movements (to the Classical way of thinking)?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Hmmm...so duets can have any number of movements (to the Classical way of thinking)?

Why not?

Rod

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael:
... The magazine suggested a bagatelle from Beethoven's Opus 119 which was 9 to 11 seconds long, depending on the performer! I'm sure somebody will come up with something shorter.

Michael

Certainly this must at least be the shortest published composition. I've heard nothing else as short as this.

Rod


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Michael:
The magazine suggested a bagatelle from Beethoven's Opus 119 which was 9 to 11 seconds long, depending on the performer! I'm sure somebody will come up with something shorter.

Michael

It is no.10 from Op.119 marked Allegramente, which simply means brightly.The metronome suggested is Minim=100, whether or not Beethoven intended it this fast is debatable.On the CD of the complete Bagatelles I have with Stephen Bishop Kovacevich it does indeed last 9 seconds!



------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Why not?

Rod

I just never heard anything on it one way or the other. Sometimes certain types of compositions had standard stuctures and number of movements. That is not to say that they were a strict mold, of course (the 6th symphony, after all, had more movements than was the standard).

------------------
"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." - Mark Twain

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
I just never heard anything on it one way or the other. Sometimes certain types of compositions had standard stuctures and number of movements. That is not to say that they were a strict mold, of course (the 6th symphony, after all, had more movements than was the standard).

I believe these multi movement sonata constructions were developed from Baroque times, for example the 'Church Sonata' style. Initially anything up to 6/7 movements could exist in a single composition, but over time 3/4 movements became the general standard. There are numerous volumes written on this subject.

Rod


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chris:
I just never heard anything on it one way or the other. Sometimes certain types of compositions had standard stuctures and number of movements. That is not to say that they were a strict mold, of course (the 6th symphony, after all, had more movements than was the standard).

Scarlatti's sonatas are in just one movement, (though some were written as pairs)- he was using the term to mean compositions for solo instrument.The Baroque Suite allowed for the greatest number of movements.In Haydn, Mozart and Clementi, 3 movements became the accepted norm.Even in his early Sonatas, Beethoven is unconventional, sometimes using 4 movements - of course later there are examples of 2 movements (Op.78,90,111) and 7 movements in the C# min Quartet Op.131.




------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Scarlatti's sonatas are in just one movement, (though some were written as pairs)- he was using the term to mean compositions for solo instrument.The Baroque Suite allowed for the greatest number of movements.In Haydn, Mozart and Clementi, 3 movements became the accepted norm.Even in his early Sonatas, Beethoven is unconventional, sometimes using 4 movements - of course later there are examples of 2 movements (Op.78,90,111) and 7 movements in the C# min Quartet Op.131.

Whereas Handels duo violin sonatas (with continuo) had up to 5 movements. For Baroque concerti, 3 movements became the norm (though Handel would have more, suiting conservative English taste).

B's earliest efforts produced on Bonn, such Electoral sonatas (WoO47) and trios WoO37 and 38 and the quartets WoO36 all had three sovements. It seems that sterner competition in Vienna compelled B to introduce a symphonic grandure (4 movements) to his first efforts there, at a time when he had yet to provide the Viennese public a symphony of his own. One could say the larger than normal number of movements in works such as Op 130, 131 and 132 was a nod in the direction of an earlier age.

Rod



------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
One could say the larger than normal number of movements in works such as Op 130, 131 and 132 was a nod in the direction of an earlier age.

Rod

Well yes I'd agree with that, though I think Beethoven's model would probably have been the 18th century divertimento rather than the concerto grosso.



------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Michael]

Regarding the number of movements in a work, I don't think that B, in his last years, was bound by any considerations of Baroque or Classical precedents. I think, for him, the internal logic of the piece dictated the number of its movements. The obvious example is Opus 111 which, in theory, lacks a finale. But what in hell (or heaven, I should say) could follow that second movement?
Michael

[Chris]

Of course. I was just curious about the standard of the day.

------------------
"Wagner's music is better than it sounds." - Mark Twain

[Peter]

Well Chris it just goes to prove that rules are made to be broken - In the works of Haydn and Mozart this is very apparent as well, with plenty of examples of their non-conformity to sonata form.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael:
Regarding the number of movements in a work, I don't think that B, in his last years, was bound by any considerations of Baroque or Classical precedents. I think, for him, the internal logic of the piece dictated the number of its movements. The obvious example is Opus 111 which, in theory, lacks a finale. But what in hell (or heaven, I should say) could follow that second movement?
Michael

I don't think anybody was bound by precidents, it's just that certain structures became popular over time, but not the rule. I agree it is the content that should (and does) define the structure, and not the other way around. Op111 is probably the ultimate example of this. Why the question of the missing finale ever arose is a mystery to me.

Rod


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin