'Copying Beethoven'

[srivele]

Originally posted by terry:
[b] And I am anxiously waiting for a viewing in Atlanta, lol.

I can't be anxious because I won't view it... now! Btw, I read that there is some crude humour (something about a "fartissimo" that hopefully won't be translated in Italian!). Beethoven didn't speak dirty as Mozart, as far as i know!

I am afraid that I have to disagree. From what I know of Beethoven, he was a pretty typical German of his time. He liked crude jokes and vulgar humor, and he is quoted as having used them. I am sure you are familiar with the note that he wrote to one of his copyists comparing the young man's intellect to fecal matter. He also liked to hang out with his friends in taverns and drink wine and beer. And on those occasions, I doubt that he discusssed Schiller's poetry.

That said, in the film, we use vulgarity as a counterpoint to his lofty artistic and spiritual nature, and to the speeches he gives on the relationship of the artist to God. If all he did was talk about such things, he would not seem human. And Beethoven was, in my view, very, very human. I am reminded of something that was once said of Tolstoy: "He was perfect, in his strengths and in his weaknesses."

[This message has been edited by srivele (edited 11-15-2006).]

[sjwenger]

I posted a favorable (A+) review to yahoo movies. Is there another venue where Beethoven fans should go to rate and/or review the movie on-line?

------------------
To learn about "The Port-Wine Sea," my parody of Patrick O'Brian's wonderful Aubrey-Maturin series, please contact me at
susanwenger@yahoo.com

To learn about "The Better Baby" book, ways to increase a baby's intelligence, health, and potentials, please use the same address.

[srivele]

Originally posted by sjwenger:
I posted a favorable (A+) review to yahoo movies. Is there another venue where Beethoven fans should go to rate and/or review the movie on-line?

Thank you for that. The first site that comes to mind is the IMDB page for the film, where you can post comments. But there are also several other sites which log comments. You will find them if you Google the title of the film and look for 'comments.'

Thanks again for the kind words.

[srivele]

Originally posted by Preston:
That's good to know, but you also have to think that they probably could have done all those things without Anna and used the two male copyist. There are ways.

Kind Regards,
Preston

I am interested to see your quote from Beethoven, about his close relationship to God. We have a moment in the film when Anna says that Beethoven should not speak casually about God, and he replies, "I assure you, the Almighty and I are on very intimate terms. We are like two bears in one den. We snarl and growl at one another other, we sleep at each other's backs, and no one dares come near us."

Anna remarks that this sounds like a very lonely religion, and Beethoven replies: "Loneliness is my religion."

So you see: Our conception of Beethoven in this regard mirrors your own.

(I should mention that the remark about being two bears in one den is something I borrowed from Gorky's reminiscences of Tolstoy. "His relations with God are very ccurious," Gorky writes of Tolstoy. "Sometimes they remind me of two bears in one den."

[srivele]

I was wondering this morning whether anyone has considered organizing a get-together of the members of this site somewhere in the world. We all have a great deal in common, and would have much to talk about, I think. I'd be happy to show the film at such an event.

[Preston]

Originally posted by srivele:
I am interested to see your quote from Beethoven, about his close relationship to God. We have a moment in the film when Anna says that Beethoven should not speak casually about God, and he replies, "I assure you, the Almighty and I are on very intimate terms. We are like two bears in one den. We snarl and growl at one another other, we sleep at each other's backs, and no one dares come near us."

Anna remarks that this sounds like a very lonely religion, and Beethoven replies: "Loneliness is my religion."

So you see: Our conception of Beethoven in this regard mirrors your own.

(I should mention that the remark about being two bears in one den is something I borrowed from Gorky's reminiscences of Tolstoy. "His relations with God are very ccurious," Gorky writes of Tolstoy. "Sometimes they remind me of two bears in one den."

Is there a link to the New York Times review? I trust, by all means, that you know the movie business better than I. I don't see how they can come out with all these ridiculous movies and not come out with a film about Beethoven and two male copyist! But, I know you know about this type of stuff.

I will definitely give the film a try, more than a try! You must understand that I am deeply hurt that Anna is a major part of the film. I also, don't know why you had to choose one of the most beautiful girls in Hollywood to play Anna. I guess this may be so that you could make the film.

I feel that there will definitely be scenes that I care for, don't get me wrong, seriously. I also think it is great that you have put the spiritual side to Beethoven in the movie, I really mean that.

I really like the part where Anna says that he shouldn't speak casually about God, and that Beethoven says how he is close enough to God that he can. I think I see what you are saying, that Beethoven has had his struggles with God.

Thank you for your post. You and your writing partner should make a movie about Vincent van Gogh.

Kind Regards,
Preston

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"But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music- it can meet no evil fate." LVB

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 11-16-2006).]

[srivele]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Preston:
[B] Is there a link to the New York Times review?

Here is Manolha Dargis' review in the NYT.

Handmaiden to a Maestro and Midwife to His Symphony



By MANOHLA DARGIS

In the movies, the life of the mind often turns to mush and stories about genius tend to be painfully dumb. Film seems to have such a firm hold on exterior reality that the inner world of creation is simply too mysterious and elusive for commercial stories that depend on objects and actions, too obscure for a medium that depends on light. And so most filmmakers give us painters slashing away at canvases with grim determination and writers nibbling on pens that might as well be magic wands, pantomimes of inspiration spiked with the usual flavorings of perversion, despair, alienation
and tragedy.

At first glance the period film "Copying Beethoven" looks as if it might be following a familiar course. To begin with, there is Ed Harris in a Beethoven wig. It's a fine wig, but wigs are generally worrisome, particularly when atop a head that seems quintessentially modern American. Then there is the matter of the young German actress Diane Kruger, who had the misfortune to play Helen in Wolfgang Petersen's "Troy" and looks too beautiful to play a role of any substance. That, at least, is one lesson imparted by Hollywood, where, as around the 12th century B.C., attractive women are often little more than prizes to be passed around onscreen. Happily, the film director Agnieszka Holland, whose previous features include "Europa, Europa," is herself a woman of substance.

"Copying Beethoven" takes place in 1824, toward the end of Beethoven's life. Ms. Kruger plays Anna Holtz, a Viennese music student who through talent, ambition and happenstance finds herself summoned to transcribe Beethoven's messy musical notations. Stone deaf, Beethoven initially rebuffs her services (you're a woman, he
all but shouts, as if her sex were a crime), but quickly relents. Time and life are running out, and he is too preoccupied with finishing his latest symphony to rout out
someone new. So together, in a darkly lighted apartment where rats scuttle underfoot amid eggshells and overflowing chamber pots, he composes and she copies. In time, the work
and the notes join forces until one evening, with Beethoven conducting, the Ninth Symphony erupts into a dazzled world.

The presentation of the Ninth is reason alone to see the film. Onscreen is the Kecskemet Symphony Orchestra of Hungary, but what we hear is a 1996 Decca recording of Bernard Haitink conducting the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra of Amsterdam. Purists may object to this strategy, but Ms. Holland's filmmaking in this scene is so sensitive that only quibblers will notice if the bowing doesn't match the sound. With her cinematographer, Ashley Rowe, and editor, Alex Mackie, she orchestrates bursts of images and metronomic camera pans that become a visual counterpoint to the music's propulsive and flowing tempos, its rushing violins and soaring voices. Every so often the camera focuses on one of Beethoven's hands, the fingertips stirring the air as if rustling the notes. The world falls away, blissfully.

The screenwriter Stephen J. Rivele, who wrote "Copying Beethoven" with Christopher Wilkinson (their other credits include "Nixon" and "Ali"), has explained that the
idea for the film originated with Anthony
Hopkins, who subsequently opted not to take the role. Mr. Harris, an actor who can show the storms gathering under a character's skin, proves an ideal substitute. Topped with that messy salt-and-pepper wig that frames and obscures his scowling, searching face, he invests Beethoven with a violent turbulence that sometimes floods the room but mostly
stays coiled inside, where it seethes. (Even his darkened eyebrows look furious.) This isn't the narcissistic rage of movie-made genius, but the private agonies of a man who
lives very much alone in his head.

"Copying Beethoven" doesn't shed light on those torments, partly because the screenwriters keep a respectful distance from their subject and partly because Ms. Holland is too smart and unsentimental to fall into such a storybook trap. Beethoven's nephew Karl (Joe Anderson) expresses revulsion at his uncle's affection for him. But, happily, no one delivers a speech about the psychological undergirding of a relationship that would, finally, be known only to these
long-dead men. When Beethoven talks about Karl, Mr. Harris releases his scowl as if unclenching a fist; you don't need to hear the composer describe his love and pain, you see them. Ms. Kruger, alas, must explain more, largely because of her gender, which needs both contextual explanation and, apparently, a love interest.

According to Mr. Rivele, the character of Anna Holtz, though based on two of Beethoven's male copyists, was created in part because the intimation of a love story
helped finance the production. That seems plausible. Certainly a film about an irritable male genius and his male assistants might not be as entrancing as the image of Ms. Kruger scrubbing a floor on her hands and knees, skirt pushed up to reveal a sliver of luminous skin. This isn't a criticism: Ms. Kruger looks exceedingly fetching whether on
the floor or hunched over a desk. More to the point, her attractiveness is not irrelevant in a film with such an unembarrassed feeling for beauty, be it in a woman's face or a rapturous ode to joy.



[This message has been edited by srivele (edited 11-16-2006).]

[sjwenger]

> I was wondering this morning whether anyone has considered organizing a get-together of the members of this site somewhere in the world. We all have a great deal in common, and would have much to talk about, I think. I'd be happy to show the
> film at such an event.


I'm in the Washington DC/Baltimore area. I'd be very happy to attend something within, say, 100 miles of either city.

------------------
To learn about "The Port-Wine Sea," my parody of Patrick O'Brian's wonderful Aubrey-Maturin series, please contact me at
susanwenger@yahoo.com

To learn about "The Better Baby" book, ways to increase a baby's intelligence, health, and potentials, please use the same address.

[Joy]

Phoenix, Arizona would be a great place. It's nice and warm here this time of year and there's ample places to hold a reception.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 11-16-2006).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by srivele:

Here is Manolha Dargis' review in the NYT.

B]

Thanks so much for printing the review Stephen, very interesting and it sounds like she comprehended the movie. I wanted to mention Joe Anderson who played Karl. I don't think enough people are mentioning him and I think he did an excellent job portraying the tormented nephew. Very good actor.



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Peter]

Originally posted by srivele:
I was wondering this morning whether anyone has considered organizing a get-together of the members of this site somewhere in the world. We all have a great deal in common, and would have much to talk about, I think. I'd be happy to show the film at such an event.

Nice idea but the practicalities are a little daunting, unless you all come over to West Sussex, England!

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'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Originally posted by sjwenger:
I'm in the Washington DC/Baltimore area.

As am I. I think I shall be seeing the movie on Friday at Bethesda Row.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 11-16-2006).]

[sjwenger]

I'll be at Bethesda Row also! I'm planning on catching the 2 pm show.

I'm "of an age," I'll be wearing a blue jacket outside, a Beethoven t-shirt inside. Glasses. Limping. I'll probably be with a large elderly man. I saw it Tuesday night at the preview, but I'm eager to see it again, especially the segment with the Ninth! Contact me off-list at sjwenger@mail.com and maybe we can grab a bite and talk Beethoven after.

------------------
To learn about "The Port-Wine Sea," my parody of Patrick O'Brian's wonderful Aubrey-Maturin series, please contact me at
susanwenger@yahoo.com

To learn about "The Better Baby" book, ways to increase a baby's intelligence, health, and potentials, please use the same address.

[Chris]

Well, I work 9 to 5, so I'll probably catch the 7:20 show after work. I'll have to see how many of my co-workers I can drag along. I may have to tell a few fibs about there being plenty of aliens and lasers and explosions to get them interested, however...

[sjwenger]

I have to admit, for as long as I've listened to Beethoven, I never once thought about his ass. Now it will be forefront in my mind whenever I hear the Moonlight Sonata. That thought should be enough to entice your co-workers without any fibs about aliens. : }

------------------
To learn about "The Port-Wine Sea," my parody of Patrick O'Brian's wonderful Aubrey-Maturin series, please contact me at
susanwenger@yahoo.com

To learn about "The Better Baby" book, ways to increase a baby's intelligence, health, and potentials, please use the same address.