Violin C'to Improvisation

[PDG]

Originally posted by Peter:
It isn't discordant - the chord is a simple dominant 7th. The effect is caused simply by the 'cello playing that high F out of the blue - for several bars prior to this the 'cello part plays the tonic note D in the same register as the piano and then it leaps up to that F. I bet you're not bothered by the first few bars of the 4th movement, yet B uses exactly the same chord and spacing as he does on that first dominant 7th chord.

I didn't know you were a betting man! The first few bars of the 4th movement must be easier to play because the string players are not so inhibited by the necessary delicacy & obvious exposure in our finally-found common ground chord. I have now checked my recordings of op.97, & I was right that you were right(!); it's the high F grating with an A flat. If the players don't hit these notes spot on, straight away, it must of course sound discordant. Many ensembles do seem to struggle with this chord; I now understand why - thanks again.

PS. I do understand about sevenths. When I grow up, I hope to buy a big book about ninths

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PDG (Peter)

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
PS. I do understand about sevenths. When I grow up, I hope to buy a big book about ninths

And what a very intereating read that will be. Could be some time before you get your hands on it though....

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
I didn't know you were a betting man! The first few bars of the 4th movement must be easier to play because the string players are not so inhibited by the necessary delicacy & obvious exposure in our finally-found common ground chord. I have now checked my recordings of op.97, & I was right that you were right(!); it's the high F grating with an A flat. If the players don't hit these notes spot on, straight away, it must of course sound discordant. Many ensembles do seem to struggle with this chord; I now understand why - thanks again.

PS. I do understand about sevenths. When I grow up, I hope to buy a big book about ninths

F and Ab do not grate! It must be a poor 'cellist indeed who is incapable of playing that F in tune - (someone of about grade 5 level should be able to play it!) - I think the problem may be one of balance between the parts , i.e if that F is louder than the Ab.

I'm pleased you've mastered 7ths, though I wasn't aware in my remarks that I had implied any lack of harmonic knowledge on your part!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-26-2001).]

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:
And what a very intereating read that will be. Could be some time before you get your hands on it though....

Quite right, Rod. And it'll need to have nice colour pictures & big, bold print to hold my interest so I don't slide off into non-musical apathy. Not to mention AC/DC. My mum always said to stay away from AC/DC men! Angus Young dressed as a schoolboy? Never did much for me, I'm afraid.

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
Not to mention AC/DC. My mum always said to stay away from AC/DC men! Angus Young dressed as a schoolboy? Never did much for me, I'm afraid.

Good advice from your mother, however you should see the AC/DC girls in their school outfits (as I will be doing at the Milton Keynes bowl in 2 weeks)! You'd soon put away your pathetic Vanessa Mae posters!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:
Good advice from your mother, however you should see the AC/DC girls in their school outfits (as I will be doing at the Milton Keynes bowl in 2 weeks)! You'd soon put away your pathetic Vanessa Mae posters!

It's Anne-Sophie Mutter posters, actually! She is classical music sex personified.

Tell me, Rod. The AC/DC thing (sincerely): Are you a HUGE fan because of Brian Johnson (like yourself a Geordie), or did you idolize the band in Bon Scott's time, equally?.....just curious......

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PDG (Peter)

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
It's Anne-Sophie Mutter posters, actually! She is classical music sex personified.

Tell me, Rod. The AC/DC thing (sincerely): Are you a HUGE fan because of Brian Johnson (like yourself a Geordie), or did you idolize the band in Bon Scott's time, equally?.....just curious......

I say this once then the matter will rest (spending too long 'off subject'). I became a fan not long after Scott died. Most fans then (and now) rated Scott above Johnson, I do not (but I still like Scott). Certainly these fans didn't buy many of Scott's recordings when he was alive, the hypocritical swines.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[NickB]

Originally posted by Rod:
Even many of the authentic performers don't, their reason being B's cadenzas for 1 & 2 are not stylistically appropriate (ie being too grand for B's earlier conception of these works) but also in this case I think the cadenzas go beyond the reach of the 5 octave pianos that are classed as the most authentic models.

My favorite recording of the 1st is Michelangeli & the Wiener on DG from 1980 (live televised concert--and they say TV has no cultural value!). The cadenza is, to me, quite spectacular, and long, at nearly five minutes. I've always assumed it was B's own, and that it was yet another example of his looking not one, but several generations ahead of his time. Almost modern.

For those interested, here's a low-quality (32 kbps) mp3 of the cadenza: http://acorn.he.net/~nickb/michelangeli_cadenza.mp3 (Sorry, no streaming available, just old-fashioned download...)

Is this in fact a B cadenza? Whoopsie--answered my own question in peeking at the liner notes...I'll hold the answer; you'll have to guess.......

Sorry for the delayed reply to this, it's been a holiday weekend here for me, with splendid weather, so I've been away from the computer a bit--but not from the maestro, of course, as I'll outline in another post soon.

[Peter]

Originally posted by NickB:
[BIs this in fact a B cadenza? Whoopsie--answered my own question in peeking at the liner notes...I'll hold the answer; you'll have to guess.......

.[/B]

The Cadenza is indeed by B and is the 3rd he wrote for this concerto's 1st movement. You're right, it is quite impressive but really out of keeping with the Concerto of 1795!

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-30-2001).]

[Claudie MICAULT]

Waouuuh !!! I have just listened the cadenza... I did'nt knew it, what a shame !
It is fantastic... Thank you Nick !!!

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Claudie