Beethoven Conversation Book

[HaydnFan]

I know that when others used to write in Beethoven's conversation book, he used to answer them aloud (which must have been quite comical from an observer's point of view!) but did he ever write in the book himself instead of speaking directly to the individual? Can anyone provide some examples?

Also, I was reading the descriptions of the symphonies of Beethoven provided on this site...under Recommended Recordings, why is there no recordings by Karajan? Do the creators of this site not like his works?

[Peter]

Yes Beethoven did sometimes write in the books, particularly when 'conversations' took place outdoors or in public places. An interesting example was a dispute over his nephew Karl's friend Niemetz and Beethoven wrote after he had left the room :

"I am very displeased with your choice of this friend of yours. Poverty, to be sure, deserves sympathy, but not without exception. I should not like to do him an injustice, but I find him a burdensome guest, completely lacking in poise and manners, which after all are somewhat necessary for well brought up youths and men.-In addition I suspect that he sides with the housekeeper rather than me.-Besides, I like quiet, the space here is too limited for more people, since I am constantly busy, and he can hardly fish up anything of interest to me.-You are still very weak in character."

This conversation continued at some length, becoming more heated with Karl defending his friend. Unfortunately there is not a complete edition of the conversation books available yet in English.

As to your last point, well yes the Karajan recordings (especially from the '60s) are very fine. However the purpose of the recommended page was to select a few personal favourites, it is not possible to list each and every superb performance!

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'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

I concur that the '60's recordings of the symphonies are better than the ones he did later. From what has been discussed in the past the 6th Symphony in particular was highlighted in this series.

[HaydnFan]

I don't know, I have the later Karajan recordings (all of them) and I like them fine...I am not aware of how they can be improved upon, they sound perfect. Maybe I would change my mind if I heard the recordings from the 60's and the ones you mention of the site but I suppose everyone gets used to the recordings they have (or the ones they hear first).

It is too bad the conversation books are not published completely in English...it would be so interesting to read them.

[Joy]

Originally posted by Peter:

"I am very displeased with your choice of this friend of yours. Poverty, to be sure, deserves sympathy, but not without exception. I should not like to do him an injustice, but I find him a burdensome guest, completely lacking in poise and manners, which after all are somewhat necessary for well brought up youths and men.-In addition I suspect that he sides with the housekeeper rather than me.-Besides, I like quiet, the space here is too limited for more people, since I am constantly busy, and he can hardly fish up anything of interest to me.-You are still very weak in character."

This conversation continued at some length, becoming more heated with Karl defending his friend. Unfortunately there is not a complete edition of the conversation books available yet in English.

What a warm and fuzzy relationship Van Beethoven had with his nephew.

Well, Peter, looks like a project for you translating Beethoven's conversation books into English!



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
I don't know, I have the later Karajan recordings (all of them) and I like them fine...I am not aware of how they can be improved upon, they sound perfect. Maybe I would change my mind if I heard the recordings from the 60's and the ones you mention of the site but I suppose everyone gets used to the recordings they have (or the ones they hear first).

It is too bad the conversation books are not published completely in English...it would be so interesting to read them.

I've heard the ravest reviews of the 6th Symphony of the earlier set, so I would recommend that one to try if you are interested. The earlier set is the more acclaimed one.