Beethoven vs. Mozart - VOTE HERE!

[paulverv]

Originally posted by Rod:
Trouble with your position here Peter is that some people think that Wagner is the greatest - are we to tollerate this too or are you prepared to realise a lack of taste here? Where will it all end?

On the other hand Beethoven, Mozart and Haydn rated Handel the best, and Handel said Purcell would have been better than him had he lived longer. By this logic Purcell could be the best...had he lived!

Handel was just being modest.

[Preston]

Maybe, I am wrong for saying this but here it goes.

In my opinion, there is no comparison between Beethoven and Mozart. As I said before, Mozart was a musical genius, but only that.

Mozart was like a child compared to Beethoven (no offense to you Mozart fans), Mozart liked to poke fun at people, for example calling overweight people repulsive when they would sweat, while on the other hand Beethoven was the one sweating. He liked to play pranks and stuff like that. Mozart was like a child, like they portray in Amadeus. He had no sense of realism, of seriousness. He would do stupid and silly things. He was like a foolish child and a joke of a human being.

Beethoven, on the other hand, was very real and serious. He was truly a very mature person. Who suffered from mental problems and depression more than we could imagine. He was a suicidal man at times and had a hard battle in life. He truly had a suffering life. But with his strength he pulled through. Beethoven's life was like a struggle to stay alive. Now that is serious. Beethoven was a man who studied life, history, the Bible, science, Greek mythology, etc. He was very smart and half mad. Could we possibly imagine what it would be like to be half mad. He could barely control himself. Yet, his music is the most sane and clear music that has ever been written. Beethoven spoke in music. He was also one of the most truly good spirits to ever walk the face of the earth.

And as for music, in my opinion, there is no comparison. Beethoven's music blows Mozart's out of the water. They are anything but equal. To compare Mozart's music to Beethoven's is a joke. Mozart wrote songs like, “Lick my a**hole until it is good and clean” and “Cosi Fan Tutte”, while Beethoven wrote songs like the, “9th symphony” and “Missa Solemnis”.

All in all, I do feel that in Mozart's last years he matured and wrote some amazing music. But that is nothing compared to Beethoven's 30 years of mature music.

Kind Regards,
Preston

[Nightklavier]

Preston - I share your enthusiasm for Beethoven, and even though I think it's like comparing two great Renaissance artists, I personally, happily and confidently place Beethoven as the greatest composer the world has ever seen.

However, I disagree entirely that Mozart was some childish fool as you say. Reading any Mozart biography pretty much suggests he certainly was not. Yes he had an impish character, an infantile sense of humor, and was just a fun-loving guy. But he took his composing very seriously. Comparing Beethoven's 9th and MS to Mozart's "Cosi Fan Tutte" is not fair. You want to compare the greatest compositions of all time to that? Mozart, in my opinion, doesn't have any work that directly compares to those olympic colossal achievements.

So I think you're right that Mozart's last mature years can't compare to Beethoven's oeuvre. But there's plenty of reasons for that and it still doesn't make Mozart so dismissable. By the way, which K. number is "lick my a-hole until it is good and clean"? I don't remember that =P

Listen to the Ave Verum Corpus, the Mass in C minor, the Concerto for Two Pianos K.365, Fantasia in C minor K.475, Rondo in A minor, the Piano Concerto No. 23 K.488. That's just a taste. I'd also mention the Requiem, but I don't want to make Robert mad.

I think many would back me up when I say Mozart is no slacker or idiot when it comes to composing "serious" music.

[Preston]

Originally posted by Nightklavier:
Listen to the Ave Verum Corpus, the Mass in C minor, the Concerto for Two Pianos K.365, Fantasia in C minor K.475, Rondo in A minor, the Piano Concerto No. 23 K.488. That's just a taste. I'd also mention the Requiem, but I don't want to make Robert mad.

I think many would back me up when I say Mozart is no slacker or idiot when it comes to composing "serious" music.

Don't get me wrong, I like Mozart.

Ave Verum Corpus and The Requiem were written in his last years. I am not sure what Kochel number "Lick my a-hole until it is good and clean" is. If I am not mistaken he wrote "Lick my a-hole" and "Lick my a-hole until it is good and clean".

I feel that Mozart did compose somewhat serious music but nothing compared to Beethoven, as far as seriousness goes.

How could a man that made fun of people, literally not jokingly, did stupid things, and wrote songs like lick my a-hole compare to a man like Beethoven.

The Great Mass in C was nothing compared to the Missa Solemnis, for say. And is nothing compared to the seriousness of the majority of Beethoven's works. It has this beautiful soprano part, which is one of the kinds of music Mozart liked to write. The Great Mass in C is one man's serious side but nothing compared to Beethoven's.

The reason I compared the Mozart songs to the Beethoven songs is because the majority of Beethoven's songs are that great, in my opinion.

Beethoven is far more serious than I could ever imagine.

Kind Regards Nightklavier,
Preston


[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 09-08-2006).]

[will0637]

All this comparison talk would be pointless if poor Mozart had lived another 20 years. He wrote more and more serious music as he got older. imagine how many more masterpieces he could wrote if had he lived to and beyond his 36th birthday. i mean beethoven didnt publish his first symphony until he was 30. beethoven's fifth didnt come out until he was 38! just imagine what mozart could've done in his 40s, especially as music evolved and he heard beethoven's works!!

[HaydnFan]

Preston, why is it that when you post on the Mozart Forum, you never speak of him this way...I think you had complemented Mozart on that site rather nicely if I recall...

...you know, you don't have to be so polarized! It's alright to admit that Mozart and Beethoven were excellent.

I personally feel that there were genres in which Mozart excelled and those in which Beethoven excelled. For example, I find Beethoven's Concertos weak compared to those of Mozart (I know that Rod disagrees) and I find Beethoven's symphonies FAR more convincing than those of Mozart. In fact, Beethoven was almost certainly the peak of symphony, not to say it goes downhill from him, just that he was the greatest symphonic writer ever.

Anyway, as I was saying, it is not necessary to suddenly detest Mozart one moment and praise him the next. I, too, sometimes desire to hear the truly poetic qualities of Beethoven's works but there are also times when it gets to be all too much and I want to hear something that makes me smile and energizes me like Mozart. It all depends on mood, don't you agree?

[Peter]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
For example, I find Beethoven's Concertos weak compared to those of Mozart (I know that Rod disagrees) and I find Beethoven's symphonies FAR more convincing than those of Mozart. In fact, Beethoven was almost certainly the peak of symphony, not to say it goes downhill from him, just that he was the greatest symphonic writer ever.

I think you'll find most people on this forum would not agree that Beethoven's piano concertos are weak compared to anything!

Anyhow this thread has gone way over our 5 page limit so to continue this discussion I suggest opening a new thread.

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'Man know thyself'