Beethoven vs. Mozart - VOTE HERE!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Johhan:
hi everyone.


SORRY IF THIS POST MAY OFFEND SOME PEOPLE HERE, I JUST WANT TO SAY MY OPINION IN THIS ANTI MOZART THREAD.

Best regards

You certainly don't offend me! You are entitled to your view as much as anyone and I respect you for it, though as I have said many times on this forum when we are dealing with such a high level of genius and artistry that both Mozart and Beethoven achieved, it really comes down to personal choice. I prefer not to make that choice because I don't think it achieves anything -both men gave the world some of its greatest music and have enriched my life so I'm happy with that!

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'Man know thyself'

[Johhan]

THANKS PETER

I have read all your posts here in this topic and i absolutely agree with all.
I like Mozart music most, but i love Beethoven music also, and i could not live with out any of the music of this two great genius.
And you are absolutely right, it is personal choice.

CHEERS

[Rod]

Originally posted by Johhan:


Beethoven him self knew that Mozart was superior, when he heard the piano concerto no.20, he said:

"we would never be able to do something like this".

And yet by the beginning of Beethoven's 'late' period Handel had become Beethoven's clear favourite over Mozart. Why do you think this became the case?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Johhan]

I don`t know why Beethoven would choose Handel over Mozart...
All i know is that Beethoven love Mozart music..an that is a fact!..if Beethoven could read some comments about Mozart in this
thread he would be very angry...

[waldstein]

some of mozart's opera were immoral and mozart himself was an impudic person ( in his letters...)his mother too!
the mozart biography is full of ashamed facts ( he was a racist ....you know the story of the black violonist...).
for all this reasons i can't qualify mozart as being the greatest composer or the god of music as tchaikovsky said.
sorry johhan!

[Peter]

Originally posted by Johhan:
I don`t know why Beethoven would choose Handel over Mozart...
All i know is that Beethoven love Mozart music..an that is a fact!..if Beethoven could read some comments about Mozart in this
thread he would be very angry...

I agree! That Beethoven came to regard Handel as the greatest composer doesn't mean that he suddenly had no regard for Mozart or Bach as some here tend to suggest!

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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by waldstein:
some of mozart's opera were immoral and mozart himself was an impudic person ( in his letters...)his mother too!
the mozart biography is full of ashamed facts ( he was a racist ....you know the story of the black violonist...).
for all this reasons i can't qualify mozart as being the greatest composer or the god of music as tchaikovsky said.
sorry johhan!

I've never heard that Mozart was racist - this sounds like a politically correct misinterpretation to me. In any case it has nothing to do with his music being great. Wagner definitely was racist but it doesn't alter the fact that he was the greatest composer of the 2nd half of the 19th century. Gesualdo murdered his wife but he still is one of the most important of the Italian Madrigalists!


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'Man know thyself'

[Johhan]

The racist behavior is one of the worst, most disagreeable,
malicious, and evil conducts of the human being.

But i have never heard in my life that Mozart was a racist,
and that is a thing that historians would not skip, we all
know that Wagner was a racist, but Mozart????...

[Opus131]

Originally posted by Peter:

but it doesn't alter the fact that he was the greatest composer of the 2nd half of the 19th century.

*cought* BRAHMS *cought*

[Peter]

Originally posted by Opus131:
*cought* BRAHMS *cought*

Well I greatly admire Brahms, Tchaikovsky and Dvorak - just to mention a few, but none of these had anything like the impact of Wagner on western music and culture. It isn't really a question of preference, rather recognition of the contribution made.

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'Man know thyself'

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well I greatly admire Brahms, Tchaikovsky and Dvorak - just to mention a few, but none of these had anything like the impact of Wagner on western music and culture. It isn't really a question of preference, rather recognition of the contribution made.

True. Wagner never wrote a symphony (except for a youthful immature effort) but had the biggest impact on the symphony and orchestral music in general of any musician who lived after Beethoven.

[Johan]

Back to Mozart...
Mozart couldn't think Beethoven being the greatest composer of all times, could he?!

[Joy]

Originally posted by waldstein:

the mozart biography is full of ashamed facts ( he was a racist ....you know the story of the black violonist...).

From reading the posts it looks like none of us have heard this story. Perhaps you can enlighten us?


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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Opus131]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well I greatly admire Brahms, Tchaikovsky and Dvorak - just to mention a few, but none of these had anything like the impact of Wagner on western music and culture. It isn't really a question of preference, rather recognition of the contribution made.

Having a greater impact on future generations doesn't necessarily implies greater artistry, and even though Brahms brought self criticism to a near fault, he is still the better composer in my book.

This is true for many other composers.

Take Bach for example. Even during his lifetime, his music was considered old, rejected. He belonged to the past, nobody was looking up to him.

Carl philip Bach, Emmanuel Bach, Gluck, Joseph Haydn, those are the names of the composers who formed and shaped the way music was going to be made on future generations.

Nonetheless, i still consider Bach to be the greater artist of any of the more 'modern' composers of his time, even the great Joseph Haydn.

Likewise, i consider Mozart to be a greater composer then Haydn even though the latter had a bigger role in shaping the music of his time...

[This message has been edited by Opus131 (edited 07-18-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Opus131 (edited 07-19-2005).]

[Johhan]

Originally posted by Johan:
Back to Mozart...
Mozart couldn't think Beethoven being the greatest composer of all times, could he?!

We share almost the same name....

Well, as we all know, Mozart met Beethoven when he was
aroun 16 years old, and it cause a great impact on Mozart,
now, we have to remember that Mozart met Beethoven not as
a composer but with his improvise skills...and in fact
Beethoven improvise over an aria of Mozart`s figaro,
i know that improvise is a manner of composition, an
instant composition if you like, but nevertheless Mozart
never had the chance to met the real Beethoven, the
Beethoven that we all know, the Beethoven of the "eroica
symphony" and the "moonlight sonata"...
The point is that if Mozart had a great impact from
Beethoven in that early stages of his career, imagine
what kind of impact could Mozart had if he would ever heard
some of Beethoven music like the fifth symphony.
I think that if Mozart would ever heard Beethoven music
as a composer he would love Beethoven, just like Beethoven
love Mozart!!