Beethoven vs. Mozart - VOTE HERE!

[chopithoven]

This poll is the same that you can find in the audiogalaxy site, in Mozart's or Beethoven's message board.
I think it as an interesting subject, so please post your idea, and a justification if you want.

[Chris]

Well, let's be realistic, here - this is a Beethoven website - who do you think is going to win?

[Peter]

I simply don't see it in those terms - it isn't a competition and both were great composers. The majority of people here probably prefer Beethoven as a composer which is fair enough, but if you asked the same question on a Mozart forum I think you could predict the response!

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'Man know thyself'

[Joy]

Absolutedly. This is a moot question. It's not as black or white as that. Of course it
comes down to just your opinion and/or preference.

[Chris]

Cue Rod...

[Gman]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
This poll is the same that you can find in the audiogalaxy site, in Mozart's or Beethoven's message board.
I think it as an interesting subject, so please post your idea, and a justification if you want.

Hey, I'm new here. What's up?

I choose Beethoven, definitely. It's not even a contest. Beethoven's personal style and distinctive uses of harmony and other techniques are far more appealing to me.

Mozart gets tiring for me after a while, the emotion is not as intense. I'd choose JS Bach second.

We know Haydn admired CPE Bach, while Beethoven definitely favored the "King of Harmony," JS Bach, more than CPE. Maybe that's why Beethoven and Haydn had their disagreements? Mozart sounds more like Haydn than Beethoven does.

[chopithoven]

I just wanted to install a debate based on one true thing: the idea of good music is not subjective. I think that there is an absolute truth about this subject. One of the composers is better than the other, and it doesn't depend on each one's opinion. So I posted this poll to see why did everybody think that Beethoven is better than Mozart. It looks like nobody understood me.

[bjorkster]

I'm interested in seeing how you explain your theory, chopithoven. That's quite a bold claim. Good luck.

Personally, I think Mozart is catchier, but I can't immerse myself as deeply into it. Beethoven, for me is much more passionate and dynamic. Overall, I think Ludwig Van is a greater composer.

[Gman]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
I just wanted to install a debate based on one true thing: the idea of good music is not subjective. I think that there is an absolute truth about this subject. One of the composers is better than the other, and it doesn't depend on each one's opinion. So I posted this poll to see why did everybody think that Beethoven is better than Mozart. It looks like nobody understood me.

Chopithoven, you're going to have to make your question more specific, in that case. On what basis do you rate composers? Their works, their technical ability, their influence, their popularity? All of the above?

Plus you have to consider the fact that people have different tastes. Someone may prefer a more aggressive style in music, for example. Do you consider taste also?

[Peter]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
I just wanted to install a debate based on one true thing: the idea of good music is not subjective. I think that there is an absolute truth about this subject. One of the composers is better than the other, and it doesn't depend on each one's opinion. So I posted this poll to see why did everybody think that Beethoven is better than Mozart. It looks like nobody understood me.

To a point you are right - there is an absolute truth about great music. I think we can say that Beethoven was a greater composer than Rossini for example and be 100% correct, despite anyone's personal preferences. However when it comes to the really great composers such as Mozart or Beethoven, it becomes much harder to choose between them and personal preference becomes much more of a factor.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Cue Rod...

Interestingly the top 500 works of all time survey by Classic FM (UK) at the end of last year had more entries by Mozart than any other composer, and the no1 work was a Mozart opera, no2 was B's violin concerto. They played all 500 works over the holidays and if nothing else is serves the purpose of showing how most classical music cannot be described as art, barely even B movie soundrack material, by B's standard. Of course I would rate Beethoven above Mozart in any genre you could care to mention. But I've heard an awful lot of awful Beethoven records, whereas Mozart music seems to be of a more stable level of interpretation, so I can easily understand if someone questions B's pole position (but lacks the foresight to understand that it is not the Master who should be inquestion). Also I cannot understand how Handel is not given more recognition - quite frankly the vast majority of JS Bach music I have heard is quite forgettable when heard alongside a similar Handel effort - there is little emotion of any kind in Bach for me, but rather a steely and rather detached perfection that is appropriate for the church but not for 'secular listening'.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Joy]

Interestingly our Classic FM station (US) had a similiar pole going last year and Beethoven had the most entries far and beyond any other classical musician/composer. His 'Moonlight' Sonata was No. 1. Bach came in second but quite far behind Beethoven.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
Interestingly our Classic FM station (US) had a similiar pole going last year and Beethoven had the most entries far and beyond any other classical musician/composer. His 'Moonlight' Sonata was No. 1. Bach came in second but quite far behind Beethoven.

Well, Mozart always tends to pip Beethoven to pole position over here, but I would not say the UK classical music loving public is a discerning one listening to this 500 works listing - some odd pieces appear very highly, but it seems because they have been included in some recent easy listening classical compilation CD - the typical fodder for Classic FM listeners!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[chopithoven]

Originally posted by Gman:

On what basis do you rate composers? Their works, their technical ability, their influence, their popularity? All of the above? Do you consider taste also?

I consider everything you said, of course, but I repeat my idea: if you or anybody thinks that Beethoven is better than Mozart, that doesn't make Beethoven better. He is great because of his music, and one of them has to be better than the other, that is really obvious.
In my "opinion" the absolute truth is that Beethoven is better than Mozart. One of the principal reasons is what bjorkster said:

Originally posted by bjorkster:

I can't immerse myself as deeply into Mozart. Beethoven, for me is much more passionate and dynamic. Overall, I think Ludwig Van is a greater composer.

For most people the best of them is the one they prefer, however the absolute truth I mentioned exists, and because of the merits of each composer.
That is all I have to say to support my theory, that is not really mine.

[Peter]

Originally posted by chopithoven:
He is great because of his music, and one of them has to be better than the other, that is really obvious.
In my "opinion" the absolute truth is that Beethoven is better than Mozart.

Why does one have to be better than the other? Both are great, isn't that enough?
Is Michelangelo greater than Leonardo da Vinci? Or Shakespeare greater than Goethe? I don't know. If you ask most musicians they will tell you that Mozart was the greatest composer who ever lived - to me he is one of the greats along with Beethoven, Handel and Bach. Each of these 4 composers reached the summit in different, not better ways.

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'Man know thyself'