The Triple Concerto

[MICAULT-VERHAEGHE]

One of my favorite recordings is the TRIPLE CONCERTO (Performed by Itzak Perlman, Yo-Yo-Ma and Daniel BARENBOIM). It gives us a good interpretation (EMI Classics). The Rondo alla polacca (last mouvement) shows us the BEETHOVEN, far before CHOPIN, was able to write a "Polonaise" better than a polish composer.... Does someone know this version ?
Your feeling about it ? Thanks....

------------------
Prof. VERHAEGHE-MICAULT

[Rod]

Of course it goes without saying that this work is of considerably more interest than a Chopin concerto, nevertheless the Triple, as we have discussed here before, is the subject of continual critisism, but I always say it's as worthy as B's others in an extremely difficult genre of music. Who else's piano trio concerto's can you recall? I would say none!! Who could have done a better job than B's effort? I would say none!! I have a period instrument version by Badura-Skoda, Anner Bylsma, Jaap Schroeder on DHM that you can still buy, coupled with the best version of the 4th concerto I have heard.

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-13-2001).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by MICAULT-VERHAEGHE:
One of my favorite recordings is the TRIPLE CONCERTO (Performed by Itzak Perlman, Yo-Yo-Ma and Daniel BARENBOIM). It gives us a good interpretation (EMI Classics). The Rondo alla polacca (last mouvement) shows us the BEETHOVEN, far before CHOPIN, was able to write a "Polonaise" better than a polish composer.... Does someone know this version ?
Your feeling about it ? Thanks....

Yes and it is a very good rendition - though normally speaking I'm not a great Barenboim fan. I also have two other recommendations for this work -

Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra - Kurt Massur/Beaux Arts Trio Philips 438 005-2PH

Oistrakh, Rostropovich, Richter, Karajan/BPO

The polonaise was known to Bach, as the Polish court was at Dresden, and the king was also the elector of Saxony - during the 1790's its popularity spread all over Europe.


------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

The first time I heard this piece, I thought, "Wow, that was rather crappy." Then I listened to it again a year later and loved every minute of it. That happens to me a lot with Beethoven. It even happened with the 6th Symphony! On the other hand, there are some works that had me hooked before I even got through the first listening, like the 4th Symphony and Fidelio.

[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 05-14-2001).]

[PDG]

Originally posted by MICAULT-VERHAEGHE:
One of my favorite recordings is the TRIPLE CONCERTO (Performed by Itzak Perlman, Yo-Yo-Ma and Daniel BARENBOIM). It gives us a good interpretation (EMI Classics). The Rondo alla polacca (last mouvement) shows us the BEETHOVEN, far before CHOPIN, was able to write a "Polonaise" better than a polish composer.... Does someone know this version ?
Your feeling about it ? Thanks....

The neat thing about the Triple Concerto is that the three solo instruments are all given plenty to do; none is subservient to the others. The Polonaise is very fine, as is the Polonaise for piano, op.89, but dismiss Chopin at your peril!! His polonaises represent a highpoint in this type of piano composition.

------------------
PDG (Peter)

[PDG]

Originally posted by Chris:
The first time I heard this piece, I thought, "Wow, that was rather crappy." Then I listened to it again a year later and loved every minute of it. That happens to me a lot with Beethoven. It even happened with the 6th Symphony! On the other hand, there are some works that had me hooked before I even got through the first listening, like the 4th Symphony and Fidelio.
[This message has been edited by Chris (edited 05-14-2001).]

The 6th Symphony? "Crappy"?!? Christopher, hang your head in shame!

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
The neat thing about the Triple Concerto is that the three solo instruments are all given plenty to do; none is subservient to the others.

Beethoven gives special prominence to the 'cello - possibly this was because Beethoven admired the playing of Kraft (who had been the leading 'cellist at Esterhazy under Haydn - he was at one time even credited with having written one of Haydn's 'cello concertos).

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Originally posted by PDG:
The 6th Symphony? "Crappy"?!? Christopher, hang your head in shame!

I know - I am a bad, bad man

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
I know - I am a bad, bad man

Not too bad, I've heard plenty of crappy renditions of the 6th, REAL crappy.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Claudie MICAULT]

Thank you for your informations about the recordings you prefer... I will find them !
Yes, it is true that the three soloists have a lot to do, that is a good reason to hear this Triple concerto by very good performers, and with a great conductor. This piece needs "dynamique". B., generally speaking, needs dynamism. Recently I have bought the 6th by FURTWÄNGLER (BERLINER PHILARMONIKER, concert of 1954): it is so slow that it becomes "ennuyeux" .... and I love this symphony (as all the others !). Some performers can put the music down. I thought it would be good because I have a very good 5th concerto by FURTWÄNGLER with Edwin FISCHER... I was totally disappointed !!! I just think the audience was sleeping at the end of this concert. Which conductor do you prefer ???? (For B. naturally...)

------------------
Claudie

[Rod]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
B., generally speaking, needs dynamism. Recently I have bought the 6th by FURTWÄNGLER (BERLINER PHILARMONIKER, concert of 1954): it is so slow that it becomes "ennuyeux" .... and I love this symphony (as all the others !). Some performers can put the music down. I thought it would be good because I have a very good 5th concerto by FURTWÄNGLER with Edwin FISCHER... I was totally disappointed !!! I just think the audience was sleeping at the end of this concert. Which conductor do you prefer ???? (For B. naturally...)

I agree absolutely, I've said much the same 1,000s of times over the years. I think these older conductors must have spent too much time with Romantic music (for which 'allegro moderato' is about as fast as you seem to get)! This Romantic interpretation of Beethoven ruins the music in my opinion. Nothing sounds worse than 'brio' music played moderato. Handel suffers similarly. I myself could do a better job than Furtwangler conducting B symphonies!!! I don't think any conductor I've heard is a spot-on Beethoven specialist, but I only consider authentic instrument ensembles these days regardless of the conductor. I recommend you try the boxed set of 9 Symphonies/Missa Solemnis/Overtures by the Hanover Band on Nimbus Records. It's cheap and if you don't like it I'll give you your money back!


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
Which conductor do you prefer ???? (For B. naturally...)

I agree with Rod about the over Romantic interpretations of the Furtwangler generation. Some people rave about these interpretations as revealing some insight into the music that the composer himself never thought of! I don't see it that way and I like Beethoven the way he wrote the music! I like the Harnoncourt set (C.O.E) of Symphonies, though some are better than others. I also like Gunter Wand with the North German Radio Orchestra .

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Claudie MICAULT]

I ordered the versions of the TRIPLE CONCERTO you all advise me to hear... In me old "black" recordings, I have a beautiful version of the "Cantate on the death of Joseph II" (N.Y. Philharmonic, Thomas SCHIPPERS conductor, with Martina ARROYO and Justino DIAZ). I am amazed by the dramatic aria "Venit Joseph", so well written for the baritone. I sang the soprano part sometimes in concert, and those arias are wonderful... The vocal music of Beethoven is -except FIDELIO and the Messes- not well-known. I even heard stupids musicologists telling that B. was unable to write correctly for the voices !!! That makes me crazy, and you all ???

------------------
Claudie

[Rod]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
I ordered the versions of the TRIPLE CONCERTO you all advise me to hear... In me old "black" recordings, I have a beautiful version of the "Cantate on the death of Joseph II" (N.Y. Philharmonic, Thomas SCHIPPERS conductor, with Martina ARROYO and Justino DIAZ). I am amazed by the dramatic aria "Venit Joseph", so well written for the baritone. I sang the soprano part sometimes in concert, and those arias are wonderful... The vocal music of Beethoven is -except FIDELIO and the Messes- not well-known. I even heard stupids musicologists telling that B. was unable to write correctly for the voices !!! That makes me crazy, and you all ???

B wrote some great arias for solo voice and orch that are never heard apart from 'Ah perfido'. They have some great melodies, especially 'Primo amore', if you sing this one you'd go down very well with any audience.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Claudie MICAULT:
In me old "black" recordings, I have a beautiful version of the "Cantate on the death of Joseph II" (N.Y. Philharmonic, Thomas SCHIPPERS conductor, with Martina ARROYO and Justino DIAZ). I am amazed by the dramatic aria "Venit Joseph", so well written for the baritone. I sang the soprano part sometimes in concert, and those arias are wonderful... The vocal music of Beethoven is -except FIDELIO and the Messes- not well-known. I even heard stupids musicologists telling that B. was unable to write correctly for the voices !!! That makes me crazy, and you all ???

The cantata is a truly astonishing piece - all the more so when you realise its composer was only 19 at the time. I really think people need to lose this perception of Beethoven being a late developer. OK, we don't have Symphonies from the age of 7 like Mozart, but there isn't much of the pre 19 Mozart that is really worthwhile. Much of Beethoven's music from the 1790's is neglected and hopefully we shall be putting that right on this site with our fortnightly selections of obscure works.

Just because Beethoven's music is not easy to perform, he is criticised! - Singers have always complained and many a frustrated pianist as well! Remember the lady who complained she had spent 3 weeks learning the Op.106 and still couldn't play the first page!

I have an excellent version of both Cantatas on Hyperion with the Corydon orchestra and singers.

------------------
'Man know thyself'