What Are You Listening To Now?

[Joy]

Tonight on NPR Beethoven's Eroica Variations. Some notes, "technically should be called the Prometheus Variations, because he took the tune from his ballet, The Creatures of Prometheus. Romanian pianist Mihaela Ursuleasa will play Beethoven's Eroica Variations at the Portland Piano International in Oregon."

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Johan]

Beethoven: Mass in C major.

[Nightklavier]

Johan - That wouldn't perhaps be the new Hyperion release of the Mass in C? I haven't bought it yet, but I'm curious whether it's a good interpretation and performance or not. I only have the Mass from the Archiv label with JE Gardiner.

[Joy]

Today on NPR: Beethoven was only 22 when he first arrived in Vienna, and spent a handful of years finding his way -- playing concerts, composing music and becoming a part of the musical and social scene. The Clairemont Trio plays Op. 11, by the young Beethoven.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[HaydnFan]

Actually, I'm listening to Holst's Planets Suite "Jupiter". In my opinion, the middle section is probably one of the most dynamic and majestic themes ever written.

[AlexOv]

What is this?! The two topics that were, a few minutes ago, each enlivened with a flaming smilie to indicate the topics are "hot", both had 169 posts to their credit (worthy of mention as an odd coincidence) and now show a sun with sunglasses.

What I have been listening to, about ten or more times this week -and am still far from sick of- using earphones and my mobile phone, is the Piano Sonata Opus 110. I read another post this morning in which people wrote about the way you can listen to some piece many times and you won't really "get it" until for some reason, at some time, you will and will absolutely love the work from then on, or words to that effect. Well, that is the case with me and this sonata.

I have heard it over the years on occasion and enjoyed it, but not like I do now. How I feel for those young people who have put clips of themselves playing the slow mov't of the Moonlight on YouTube and the like. Ah, there is so much better Beethoven to hear! Then again, I remember being about 14 years old and seeing and hearing someone play it on the tv, and it did turn my head towards classical music. So there is value in the Moonlight yet!

The version of the 110 I have been listening to is played by Rudolf Buchbinder, on a Teldec CD, from a studio performance in 1981. I know some of you will say " Ah, you need the definitive version by so and so" but it sounds fine by me and he does a lot to capture all the minor melodies and accents and rhythmic changes. Any of you heard much by this fellow? How is he regarded by you experts?

[Nightklavier]

Alex - I'm glad you feel that way about the Op. 110. I've been posting in various threads here about it and why I think it's one of Beethoven's superior and underrated piano sonatas. That last movement, in particular is one of my favorite moments in Beethoven. No one has ever written music that achieves the same effect. That deeply lamenting introduction is more powerful than the most depressing melodies from Chopin or Liszt. The mystifying fugue that succeeds it is another one of those hazy and superlative expressions of music makes me feel like I'm having a dream while being on drugs at the same time.

[AlexOv]

Originally posted by Nightklavier:
Alex - I'm glad you feel that way about the Op. 110. I've been posting in various threads here about it and why I think it's one of Beethoven's superior and underrated piano sonatas. That last movement, in particular is one of my favorite moments in Beethoven. No one has ever written music that achieves the same effect. That deeply lamenting introduction is more powerful than the most depressing melodies from Chopin or Liszt. The mystifying fugue that succeeds it is another one of those hazy and superlative expressions of music makes me feel like I'm having a dream while being on drugs at the same time.

Gees, you ought to be more careful than to say things like "Noone has ever, etc.."!!
You will get them upset and angry, and because it is all so subjective.. you might even make ME a little irritated! But I know what you mean....All of Beethoven's late period sonatas are better than good. As you know, he did not write more for piano after them, having just about exhausted all the possibilites for the times he lived in. After them he worked on other forms (string quartet and the 9th, for ex) and pretty well exhausted all the possibilities for those forms as well. Some guy, and I never forget how completely deaf he was at the time. Mind you, there were a lot of other pianists who developed other possibilities for the instrument after Beethoven. We don't know, but can only surmise that in his improvisations he may have, at some time, have played something like jazz or blues... not likely, of course, and I say it just as a joke, but had it been true, how one wishes they had had a microphone on hand! some of the somewhat discordant combinations of parts of these later sonatas at times presage the sounds of jazz, but don't ask me to identify the specific bars for that!
Actually, I have just been listening to the Hammerklavier and it really does have its moments.

[Nightklavier]

Originally posted by AlexOv:
Gees, you ought to be more careful than to say things like "Noone has ever, etc.."!!
You will get them upset and angry, and because it is all so subjective.. you might even make ME a little irritated!

Well my passion makes me say things along the lines of "no one has ever" or "nothing is like this" but I don't think I'm wrong in suggesting that no one achieved the same effect as Beethoven with his Op. 110. It was one of the last milestones of Beethoven's piano literature and there is nothing like it. I've heard a lot of music and nothing has at least given me the same effect as the last movement of the Op. 110.

We don't know, but can only surmise that in his improvisations he may have, at some time, have played something like jazz or blues... not likely, of course, and I say it just as a joke, but had it been true, how one wishes they had had a microphone on hand! some of the somewhat discordant combinations of parts of these later sonatas at times presage the sounds of jazz, but don't ask me to identify the specific bars for that!

I too wish I was a fly on the wall to Beethoven's improvisations. But frankly, I think Beethoven's improvisations would have made the whole of jazz unimaginative, weak, and laughable. Instead of wandering around the keyboard looking for a key or some kind of rhythm (not to be judgemental of jazz ), Beethoven could improvise a work just as inspired, structured, and originally melodic as his own piano sonatas. There are contemporary accounts that even suggest this. Composers from Bach, Mozart, Chopin, and Liszt had such powers too. They were masters of "classical" improvisation. Some contemporaries of Chopin said his improvisations were greater than his compositions. I think the same, if not more can be said about Beethoven. I think a genius like that improvising for 5 minutes would have made the entire repertoire of jazz a children's trifle. Of course I don't know this but that's just my opinion. I don't want to offend any jazz lovers here (jazz sucks), but placing Beethoven in any arena with any other composer or genre is always going to give Ludwig the good odds.

Actually, I have just been listening to the Hammerklavier and it really does have its moments.

Without question. I remember the first time I heard the adagio sostenuto... it changed my life.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Nightklavier:
I too wish I was a fly on the wall to Beethoven's improvisations. But frankly, I think Beethoven's improvisations would have made the whole of jazz unimaginative, weak, and laughable. Instead of wandering around the keyboard looking for a key or some kind of rhythm (not to be judgemental of jazz ), Beethoven could improvise a work just as inspired, structured, and originally melodic as his own piano sonatas. There are contemporary accounts that even suggest this. Composers from Bach, Mozart, Chopin, and Liszt had such powers too. They were masters of "classical" improvisation. Some contemporaries of Chopin said his improvisations were greater than his compositions. I think the same, if not more can be said about Beethoven. I think a genius like that improvising for 5 minutes would have made the entire repertoire of jazz a children's trifle. Of course I don't know this but that's just my opinion. I don't want to offend any jazz lovers here (jazz sucks), but placing Beethoven in any arena with any other composer or genre is always going to give Ludwig the good odds.

I think you're quite right in your assessment of Beethoven's improvisational powers - I think few really comprehend just what these amazing people were capable of. I think this is such an interesting point that we should start a new thread on amazing musical feats.

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'Man know thyself'

[Hofrat]

Hummel:

Missa Solemnis
Te Deum

[Johan]

Originally posted by Nightklavier:
Johan - That wouldn't perhaps be the new Hyperion release of the Mass in C? I haven't bought it yet, but I'm curious whether it's a good interpretation and performance or not. I only have the Mass from the Archiv label with JE Gardiner.

Hello Nightklavier!

Sorry to answer after so long a time! I have three interpretations. The one with Gardiner, then with Riccardo Chailly (my favourite) and a third with Matthew Best (Hyperion). The Best performance dates from 1995. Perhaps you mean some other that I'm not aware of...???

[Nightklavier]

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/details/55263.asp

So you have that one? That's the new release I was talking about. If that's the one you have, how do you like it?

[Johan]

Originally posted by Nightklavier:
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/details/55263.asp

So you have that one? That's the new release I was talking about. If that's the one you have, how do you like it?

Yes!

It is inferior both to Gardiner and Chailly, in my opinion. Soloists, choral singing and orchestral playing aren't that good. Tempos are slowish - sometimes they make something come "out" better, but the reading lacks the vitality that the other versions have (and I don't mean faster tempos). Gloria is an important point. There Best misses something: it is too straightforward bombastic and then also dropping in intensity. It misses hereby something of the glorious unity the other versions have. The same is true of Credo.



[This message has been edited by Johan (edited 10-16-2006).]

[Sorrano]

Handel: Messiah performed by Sir Colin Davis with the LSO, my favorite recording of that work.