How did classical music get its name?

[Chris]

There are links in those messages, usually just on periods or something else hard to notice. Just ignore them. We delete them ASAP, and are working on a couple of things to get rid of them for good.

[HaydnFan]

Firstly, I disagree with you Preston, that "orchestral" can mean a piece including any instruments of the orchestra....certainly it does not have to include all the instruments but a piano sonata? There is no way I would consider that to be an orchestral work.

Also, what about vocal music? The voice is not an instrument of the orchestra (though it is an instrument, of course).

[Peter]

Originally posted by Preston:
HaydnFan, yes I understand that, about the era and the genre.

Orchestral doesn't mean that it has to use the whole orchestra. It just means that instruments from the orchetra are being used, there for it is orchestral.

Peter had a good point saying that using "orchestral" could get confusing because composers like John Williams use an orchestra or instruments from an orchestra.

Preston

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-13-2006).]

Preston, the term orchestral is used to describe music played by a large body of instrumentalists playing together that normally comprise these sections: strings, woodwind, brass and percussion - in other words music played by an orchestra. You can't include solo piano music (played by one person), lieder (piano and solo voice), chamber music (which implies music played by a small group) etc...

John Williams's Star Wars is orchestral music as it uses this large body of instrumentalists combining all the different sections of an orchestra - this has nothing to do with stylistic issues, purely genre.



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'Man know thyself'

[Preston]

It was just an idea. HaydnFan you said symphonic, do you think that would work for the things you desribe? I literally don't know.

Preston

[PDG]

Originally posted by Chris:
Creating art is superficial?

It can be, especially in these modern, disposable times. But Beethoven I believe was always inspired to create music rather than art. I don't listen to a Beethoven symphony and think "that's one of my favourite pieces of art"! Which is not to say that Beethoven was not a great artist. He just followed his muse.

[PDG]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
...

classical (with a small C) can refer, as we have been saying, to any of this music (Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Modern, etc.). This is why you see in the record stores the classical music section or you might say to your friends, "I like classical music"...this could mean you like Bach, Mozart, Stravinsky, Monteverdi, Copland, Purcell, etc. etc.

With record stores, I just don't think they have a clue about which music should go in which rack. You will find Charlotte Church in "Classical Music" AND "Pop Music" when really she belongs in "Screeching Overrated Brat Music" (no offence, Charlotte...).

[HaydnFan]

PDG, I agree there...you can also find such non-classical music in record stores as Josh Groban and Il Divo...sigh

Preston, I said symphonic? I can't find it in my post but that is probably a worse term than "orchestral" because symphonic refers to a very specific genre of music called "Symphony"...usually 4 (or with Beethoven sometimes 5) movements using the orchestra (ie. no particular solo instruments or groups of instruments)

I still think "art music" might be the best term we have...I think the reason it was brought up was because in German, lieder (songs) does not mean the same thing that a "song" means in the English-speaking world...a lied is an "art song" and is distinguished from a separate term for any song (such as a pop song).

So in the same spirit, maybe "classical" music should be called "art music"?

[Preston]

Sorry HaydnFan, you said "Even names like "Symphonic" would leave out non-symphonic genres and "Instrumental" would be too broad...".

My mistake.

Preston

[Joy]

Originally posted by PDG:
With record stores, I just don't think they have a clue about which music should go in which rack. You will find Charlotte Church in "Classical Music" AND "Pop Music" when really she belongs in "Screeching Overrated Brat Music" (no offence, Charlotte...).

Ha! We have a section like that in the musical department of our CD/record stores as well, it also includes Britney Spears.



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Preston]

Originally posted by PDG:
It can be, especially in these modern, disposable times. But Beethoven I believe was always inspired to create music rather than art. I don't listen to a Beethoven symphony and think "that's one of my favourite pieces of art"! Which is not to say that Beethoven was not a great artist. He just followed his muse.

In my opinion, certain music is a form of art. I imagine that Beethoven felt that his pieces were great works of art. He just wasn't one to brag about it.

Kind Regards,
Preston

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 10-15-2006).]

[DavidO]

Originally posted by Preston:
Groups like Britney Spears, The Killers, rap music (God forbid it), etc. are often associated with being pop music. But there are also bands like Fleetwood Mac, Kansas, etc. and so on.

Factoid: On Fleetwood Mac's Tusk Tour (1979-1980), the guitarist Lindsey Buckingham vamped on themes from Beethoven's symphonies during the band jam portion of "World Turning" (about three-quarters of the way through the set).