Beethoven, Theatrical Works and Bonn

[robert newman]

Does anyone know if Beethoven at any time considered writing a stage work based on Shakespeare ? Possibly 'Hamlet' ?

[DavidO]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Does anyone know if Beethoven at any time considered writing a stage work based on Shakespeare ? Possibly 'Hamlet' ?

"Macbeth," according to Solomon (p. 256).

By Beethoven's time (roughly 1800), the cult of Shakespeare had been secured--indeed, invented (say cultural historians), thanks to flowering Romanticism in England & on the continent. Lessing in Germany pushed Shakespeare as the greatest of dramatists & of poets, & German writers like Schlegel, Tieck & Wieland translated the works for German readers. I like to think that Beethoven read the plays in the Schlegel translation.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Does anyone know if Beethoven at any time considered writing a stage work based on Shakespeare ? Possibly 'Hamlet' ?

Robert;

Beethoven was quite keen on "Macbeth" which he planned to do in corroboration with von Collin. von Collin did manage to write the libretto for the first act, but stopped claiming it was becoming too dark and morbid. He would suddenly die in 1811, leaving Beethoven in the lurch. Beethoven would sketch the beginning of the overture (Biamonti 454) and eventually use some thematic material from it in his "Ghost Trio" (which should be entitled "Witch Trio").


Hofrat

[robert newman]

Thanks DavidO and Hofrat. I am looking at the stage music Beethoven may have heard at Bonn. David, I note you saying Lessing in Germany pushed Shakespeare as the greatest of dramatists and of poets, that German writers like Schlegel, Tieck & Wieland translated the works for German readers'. You also say, 'I like to think Beethoven read the plays in the Schlegel translation'.

I honestly know nothing of Shakespeare's introduction in to Germany or if Schlegel's translation was involved but I learned only yesterday of a remarkably early stage production of Shakespeare by the Bonn based Grossmann group given at Frankfurt am Main in 1780 which the young Beethoven may just possibly have heard being rehearsed. Its playbill has survived along with other related material - now kept at Frankfurt University - (reference there Mus.Ms.Oper 386 1-4). It was one of at least 4 different stage works performed by Grossmann at Frankfurt am Main during the years 1780-1783.

On 5th September 1780) at Frankfurt am Main was a production of 'Clavigo' of Goethe (with prologue by d'Antione refered to in 1783 'Cramer Magazine') performed there by the Grossmann group) and then, just over 3 weeks later in the same city 'Hamlet - Prinz of Danemark' - Shakespeare - 'with pantomine' performed 28th September 1780 at Frankfurt am Main - playbills for both still in existence.

That's a very early Shakespeare stage production in Germany, isn't it ?

Regards

[Joy]

The Ghost Trio, one of my favourites! Here's some information that I found in addition to Hofrat's,

"The Piano Trio in D Major, opus 70, #1, was composed in 1809. Its minor-mode slow movement, Largo assai ed espressive, is filled with such chromaticism and tremolos that Czerny associated it with the scene from Shakespeare where Hamlet encounters the ghost of his father. William Kinderman notes that the uncanny attribution is literally warranted, but the connection is not with Hamlet but with Macbeth. In 1808 Beethoven was sketching ideas for an opera based on a Macbeth libretto by Heinrich von Collin, and entries for the abandoned opera project are found interspersed with ideas for the slow movement of the trio."


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'Truth and beauty joined'

[PDG]

Originally posted by robert newman:


That's a very early Shakespeare stage production in Germany, isn't it ?

Regards

Hi Robert. It seems to me that there is a serious question as to whether or not Shakespeare actually existed! He was not a composer, okay, but I am not pulling your leg! The theory persists. What do you think about that?

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Joy:
The Ghost Trio, one of my favourites! Here's some information that I found in addition to Hofrat's,

"The Piano Trio in D Major, opus 70, #1, was composed in 1809. Its minor-mode slow movement, Largo assai ed espressive, is filled with such chromaticism and tremolos that Czerny associated it with the scene from Shakespeare where Hamlet encounters the ghost of his father. William Kinderman notes that the uncanny attribution is literally warranted, but the connection is not with Hamlet but with Macbeth. In 1808 Beethoven was sketching ideas for an opera based on a Macbeth libretto by Heinrich von Collin, and entries for the abandoned opera project are found interspersed with ideas for the slow movement of the trio."

Dear Joy;

Inedita has recorded a realzation of the "Macbeth Overture" based on Beethoven's sketches.


Hofrat

[robert newman]

Thanks for that Joy - really interesting stuff ! Just as we are struck by the sheer majesty of Beethoven's music, so too must he have been struck by a number of great artists in his own life. I think Shakespeare was one of them.

PDG, yes, there's a lot of published material on this issue of Shakespeare, who he was, what he did, and did not write, etc. I once watched a fascinating TV documentary on this subject (Channel 4) which I videotaped but lost some time later. It's easy to dismiss those who are said to say Shakespeare did not exist. In fact, nobody at all says he did not exist. What they mean is that William Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon was not the author of those plays. They say 'William Shakespeare' was a pen-name used by the true author of those plays.

My personal view is Shakespeare did write the works we have today in his name. But, at the same time, there are very strong arguments that Bacon was at least partly involved in some of these works and that a series of intrigues involving Italy are suggestive of some sort of liaison between Shakespeare and Bacon. Certainly, many of the portraits are either painted much later than he lived or are wrongly attributed to him. The curious silence in English circles on the death of Shakespeare only adds to the mystery.

Both views have strong arguments and I'm open-minded on this issue. Whoever wrote those plays/sonnets was tremendously talented, for sure. It's literature of tremendous beauty that will forever be part of the English language.

Regards

[Marek Krukowski]

As far as I know there are three works of Beethoven connected with Shakespeare's dramas. Second part of Ghost-Trio (Macbeth), second part of First Quartet (Romeo and Juliet), and not so sure Sonata d-moll(The Tempest)

But...

Once when I had been listening to the very important but in some sense enigmatic and hard to be interpreted work of Beethoven I realized that all in this work would became absolutely obvious for me if it had been possible to assume that it had been inspired by one of Shakespeare's plays.

Of course it was only poor speculation.

But...

This Shakespeare play was "Midsummer Night's Dream"

And the work of Beethoven was?

[robert newman]

Just a pure guess - Overture to Coriolan ?

[Frankli]

Originally posted by robert newman:

It's easy to dismiss those who are said to say Shakespeare did not exist. In fact, nobody at all says he did not exist. What they mean is that William Shakespeare of Stratford on Avon was not the author of those plays. They say 'William Shakespeare' was a pen-name used by the true author of those plays.

Without wanting to restart the kind of discussion we have had before: I think it was Mark Twain who dealt sufficiently with the question about Shakespeare's authorship by saying words like: "Shakespeare's plays were not written by Shakespeare, but by another guy who called himself Shakespeare."

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Just a pure guess - Overture to Coriolan ?

Not Shakespeare, Heinrich von Collin.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Not Shakespeare, Heinrich von Collin.

Yes but Wagner seems to be the first to have pointed out that the overture might just as well have been written for Shakespeare's tragedy as Collin's.

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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by DavidO:
I like to think that Beethoven read the plays in the Schlegel translation.

He possessed all Shakespeare's plays in the Eschenburg prose translation.

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'Man know thyself'

[Peter]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Just a pure guess - Overture to Coriolan ?

Can't be that Robert - Marek says the work he's referring to may have been inspired by "Midsummer Night's Dream" - I haven't a clue!




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'Man know thyself'