Beethoven, Theatrical Works and Bonn

[robert newman]

Yes Rod, I kmow the author. But the question was which work inspired Beethoven to write a piece with Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliette in mind. My guess is the Overture to Coriolan.

Regards

[Frankli]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Yes Rod, I kmow the author. But the question was which work inspired Beethoven to write a piece with Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliette in mind. My guess is the Overture to Coriolan.
Regards

Like Marek writes: it's the slow movement of one of the op. 18 quartets. Beethoven seems to have been inspired by the tomb scene.

[Marek Krukowski]

Marek says the work he's referring to may have been inspired by "Midsummer Night's Dream" - I haven't a clue!

Well, this is the work which connects in its music very different aspects:
- some obviosly nocturnal (with mystery and beauty)
- some festive, brilliant and noisy (court?)
- some rustical
- some especially light and aetheric (fairy?)
- some theatrical and fantastic gestures (like the change of the scene) but without real serious dramatic conflict

This variety off moods is the main reason fore my association.
And I see some resemblance in character of this music with that what Mendelssohn wrote for his interpretation of Shakespear's comedy.

Of course I don't mean Mendelssohn was inspired by this work of Beethoven in his intepretation of Shakespeare nor Beethoven really wanted to present Shakespeare. My point is that aesthetic base of this very peculiar work have something common with Shakespeare's diversity of moods and that tricks used by Beethoven was not inadequate for this play.

In fact I never heard about interpretation of this work as program music.

And, well, there is smothing more... very strange roar in silent notturno... like... hm... bray of donkey from distance?

Don't take it too seriously.

Marek


[This message has been edited by Marek Krukowski (edited 09-19-2006).]

[Fidelio]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Does anyone know if Beethoven at any time considered writing a stage work based on Shakespeare ? Possibly 'Hamlet' ?

As far as I am aware, Beethoven had no plans for Hamlet. As previouly mentioned, Beethoven was familiar with many of Shakespeare's plays, even recommending them to friends. Sketches exist for an opera 'Macbeth' (adapted by Collin from Shakespeare) and according to Amenda, the slow movement of the String Quartet Op.18 No.1 was meant to depict the tomb scene in Romeo and Juliet(a claim which is supported by LvB sketches). Schindler's claim about the D minor Piano Sonata, Op.31 No.2, being an explanation of the Tempest maybe without foundation.

Shakespeare (and other authors)is also quoted many times in Beethoven's Tagebuch.




------------------
Fidelio

Must it be.....it must be

[robert newman]

Thanks. Fine.

The extent to which Beethoven's music may be regarded as programmatic is interesting to me. I'm not for a moment suggesting it was ever rigidly programmatic. With the exception of a few pieces such as his 'Battle' Symphony. For, even in the 'Pastoral' Symphony Beethoven goes out of his way to explain that it's not literally a representation of nature. And yet there are undoubtedly elements of that work which are. Who for example can doubt that the cuckoo in the Scene by the Brook was meant to represent a cuckoo ? So it's only a question of degree.

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by PDG:
Hi Robert. It seems to me that there is a serious question as to whether or not Shakespeare actually existed! He was not a composer, okay, but I am not pulling your leg! The theory persists. What do you think about that?

---------

Julius Caesar, Romeo and Juliet, Titus Andronicus, Antony and Cleopatra, Coriolanus, Two Gentleman of Verona, The Merchant of Venice, etc.

Oh, Shakespeare lived, alright! But he was ITALIAN.

Regards,
Agnes.

[robert newman]

Dear Agnes,

I thought he was an Arabic leader !

'Sheik Speare'

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Dear Agnes,

I thought he was an Arabic leader !

'Sheik Speare'

----------

Actually, this is quite excellent. I will
tell my grandson who Shakespeare really was.
Thank you, Robert. I would love to put a smilie here but don't know how to do it.

Regards,
Agnes.

[robert newman]

Dear Agnes,

Fine. I repeat what I wrote earlier - 'My personal view is Shakespeare DID write the works we have today in his name'. Perhaps you can tell your grandson this too ? As he gets older he can read the huge library on the Shakespeare issue if so chooses. But you must not be too upset if he learns to differ from your view that Shakespeare was an Italian. That will be part of learning. He will also learn there was no Santa Claus and that Batman is not real. All normal stuff we learn as we get older. (Or should do).

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Dear Agnes,

I thought he was an Arabic leader !

'Sheik Speare'

Dear Robert;

Do not laugh!! The president of Algeria, Kadaffi, believes that it is so!!


Hofrat

[robert newman]

Isn't this even more reason to laugh, and not less so ?

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Hofrat:

Dear Robert;

Do not laugh!! The president of Algeria, Kadaffi, believes that it is so!!

Dear Robert;

OOPS!! That should read "president of Libya" and not "president of Algeria." Sorry!!

Hofrat

[DavidO]

Originally posted by Marek Krukowski:
Well, this is the work which connects in its music very different aspects:
- some obviosly nocturnal (with mystery and beauty)
- some festive, brilliant and noisy (court?)
- some rustical
- some especially light and aetheric (fairy?)
- some theatrical and fantastic gestures (like the change of the scene) but without real serious dramatic conflict

This variety off moods is the main reason fore my association.

And, well, there is smothing more... very strange roar in silent notturno... like... hm... bray of donkey from distance?

I wish you'd tell us already! I'm dying to know which composition you have in mind. The bray of a donkey?! For the life of me, I ... can't ... imagine ... Which Beethoven has a sound like a donkey braying? Hmmm. . . .

[robert newman]

Perhaps it's WoO.28. Beethoven Variations on 'La Ci darem la mano' ? It comes from the well known Donkey Ovani. (just joking folks !).

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Dear Agnes,

Fine. I repeat what I wrote earlier - 'My personal view is Shakespeare DID write the works we have today in his name'. Perhaps you can tell your grandson this too ? As he gets older he can read the huge library on the Shakespeare issue if so chooses. But you must not be too upset if he learns to differ from your view that Shakespeare was an Italian. That will be part of learning. He will also learn there was no Santa Claus and that Batman is not real. All normal stuff we learn as we get older. (Or should do).

-----

Dear Robert,

My calling Shakespeare an Italian was said in jest. I am sorry you did not get it.

My grandson is 14 years old, he attends Sydney Grammar and is not concerned with Santa but with Romeo and Juliet, the play he
enjoys this semester. He has never heard of Batman. That worthy character belonged to my son's generation.

I am proud to say that he is a Latinist
and speaks that language fluently as he does French and Italian. He is a scholarship pupil at Sydney Grammar so he has many more Shakespeare plays ahead of him to study and enjoy.

Not all "Colonials" are stupid.

Regards,
Agnes.