Has Karl suffered violence from Beethoven?

[Roehre]

Therein lies the real abuse - the terrible blackening of the mother's name and attempting to turn a young child against her. I've no doubt Beethoven believed he was acting in Karl's best interest but he wasn't being entirely honest with himself regarding his own motives - he desperately wanted to feel that he was the boy's true father and this was not possible with Johanna on the scene. The enormous psychological damage done to Karl resulted in his future miscreant behaviour and led to the botched suicide attempt with the demolition of all Beethoven's hopes for him.

I agree the full 100%

[Bonn1827]

Very eloquently expressed, Peter. A terribly sad situation all around. We can't cast aspersions these days as cultural attitudes towards discipline were so different then. In our own country, Australia, people were still being transported from the UK for the mildest of crimes at the same time Beethoven was punishing Karl. Unfortunately, societies have now gone full circle and have little control of streets - the courts are a joke - and many schools are now a nightmare world for teachers. Subjected to regular profanities myself, I left the profession late 2007. The culture of violence and coarseness we have today has a direct correlation in the way we have over-reacted to past attempts to discipline members of society. But I digress. Is it true that one of Karl's children moved to the USA and changed his name? Are there any descendents of LvB?

[Peter]

Very eloquently expressed, Peter. A terribly sad situation all around. We can't cast aspersions these days as cultural attitudes towards discipline were so different then. In our own country, Australia, people were still being transported from the UK for the mildest of crimes at the same time Beethoven was punishing Karl. Unfortunately, societies have now gone full circle and have little control of streets - the courts are a joke - and many schools are now a nightmare world for teachers. Subjected to regular profanities myself, I left the profession late 2007. The culture of violence and coarseness we have today has a direct correlation in the way we have over-reacted to past attempts to discipline members of society. But I digress. Is it true that one of Karl's children moved to the USA and changed his name? Are there any descendents of LvB?

I agree the balance of discipline has completely gone the other way and am not at all surprised to hear of your disillusion with the teaching profession. For more info on Karl's family see this page on the main site:
http://www.lvbeethoven.co.uk/page32.html