Beethoven Symphony No. 2

[HaydnFan]

What do you think of Beethoven's Symphony No. 2? I have heard people "knock" this one but it is one of my very favourites. The development of motives/themes is astounding; that aspect always reminds me of the first movement from Beethoven's 7th where one theme leads to another in a logical and exciting fashion.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
What do you think of Beethoven's Symphony No. 2? I have heard people "knock" this one but it is one of my very favourites. The development of motives/themes is astounding; that aspect always reminds me of the first movement from Beethoven's 7th where one theme leads to another in a logical and exciting fashion.

Dear HaydnFan;

All of Beethoven's symphonies were "knocked" at their inception. Please see Nicholas Slonimsky's "Lexicon of Musical Invective."

As for the Beethoven 2nd, there is a wonderful passage in the first movement introduction that actually foresees the 9th!


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
What do you think of Beethoven's Symphony No. 2?

Did you not hear Beethoven's trio arrangement of it I posted here a couple of weeks back?!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Rod:
Did you not hear Beethoven's trio arrangement of it I posted here a couple of weeks back?!

Dear Rod;

I have that arrangement in my CD collection, as well as the piano quintet arrangement of his 4th piano concerto.


Hofrat

[HaydnFan]

Hi Rod, no I did not hear the arrangement...

...Ok, I have listened to it; it is very nice indeed! Almost better than the actual symphony! Do you have the first movement of that as well or did B only do an arrangement for the last movement?

[This message has been edited by HaydnFan (edited 09-25-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Rod;

I have that arrangement in my CD collection, as well as the piano quintet arrangement of his 4th piano concerto.

Hofrat

Yes that's the one I've got. You may recall I presented WMAs of the 1st and last movements. What fantastic music that is never performed. Too bad you missed out 1 track Haydn but the link to it may still work, of course he arranged the whole thing. I can recommend Norrington's 2nd Symphony in particular, a worthy challenger to the arrangement! Forget the old-school recordings.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-25-2006).]

[Ateach Asc]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear HaydnFan;

As for the Beethoven 2nd, there is a wonderful passage in the first movement introduction that actually foresees the 9th!


Hofrat

Thanks Hofrat for confirming a suspicion that I've had for so many years... ever since I wore out the Beecham vynil version. Most frustrating was somehow or other convincing others that the chords to which you refer became a leitmotif (is that the word??) in the first movement of the ninth.

But the single most enigmatic part concerning that passage is that it is sounded but once in that entire 2nd symphony. Beethoven very rarely allowed a few well planted notes to briefly appear and then never again be heard from. Another example of this once only phenomenon by LVB is a very brief passage in his 5th sonata for cello and piano in which the notes, once played, are never heard from again until the theme is played from that 1938 classic movie *Gone With The Wind*. There those notes are developed and redeveloped.

But meanwhile, back at the 2nd... the chords can be felt to presage the 9th only when interpreted by certain conductors. I've heard a number of versions in which that particular passage comes off differently and misses the 9th altogether.



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Must it be? It must be!

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by HaydnFan:
What do you think of Beethoven's Symphony No. 2? I have heard people "knock" this one but it is one of my very favourites. The development of motives/themes is astounding; that aspect always reminds me of the first movement from Beethoven's 7th where one theme leads to another in a logical and exciting fashion.

One of my favorite works in all of music.

The venerable New York City classical music radio station WQXR has for many years used the opening of the second movement as a theme for its nightly 'Symphony Hall' broadcast. Unfortuantely Rod did not see fit to post the trio version of this movement recently.





[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-27-2006).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Unfortuantely Rod did not see fit to post the trio version of this movement recently.

Before Rod pounces on you Chaszz, he did share this only a few weeks ago and very enjoyable it was too.
http://www.gyrix.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002514.html



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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:

Before Rod pounces on you Chaszz, he did share this only a few weeks ago and very enjoyable it was too.
http://www.gyrix.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002514.html

I had the claws out!


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Ateach Asc:
Thanks Hofrat for confirming a suspicion that I've had for so many years... ever since I wore out the Beecham vynil version. Most frustrating was somehow or other convincing others that the chords to which you refer became a leitmotif (is that the word??) in the first movement of the ninth.

But meanwhile, back at the 2nd... the chords can be felt to presage the 9th only when interpreted by certain conductors. I've heard a number of versions in which that particular passage comes off differently and misses the 9th altogether.

Dear Ateach;

You and I are not the only ones who noticed the similarity of bar 23 of the 2nd symphony's introduction to the theme of the first movement of the 9th symphony.

At the risk of being called a "nit picker" by the other forum members, allow me to point out that a "leitmotif" (leading motive) is a well-marked musical theme or phrase associated with a character, thought, or action. Since Beethoven's symphonies tended to be "absolute music" rather than "program music," Beethoven did not use leitmotifs in them.


Hofrat

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
I had the claws out!

I was expecting no less, but I think there has been enough blood-letting here lately!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I was expecting no less, but I think there has been enough blood-letting here lately!

It's Hoffrat I'm scared of the most, I always feel nervous when he's about!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Peter:

Before Rod pounces on you Chaszz, he did share this only a few weeks ago and very enjoyable it was too.
http://www.gyrix.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002514.html

I did listen with great pleasure to the first and last movements which he posted, but I don't believe he posted the second movement.

The thread is difficult to search in this respect, since it is full of references to second symphony and second track posted, but I don't think the second movement was uploaded. Rod wants me to buy the CD instead, but as I said originally, it's hard to believe that the lovely elegaic richness of the second movement would not be diminished by the absence of a string choir. Now, if I could only judge for myself before buying...

[This message has been edited by Chaszz (edited 09-27-2006).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Rod:
It's Hofrat I'm scared of the most, I always feel nervous when he's about!

Come on, guys!! Ateach asked a question and I answered very politely. I am not an invective person. And my claws were removed long ago.


Hofrat