Hello

[Zauber]

Hi, friends, i'm new here! I want to know some brazilians to chat! My real name is Juvenal and i am from Sao Paulo!

*****¨¨*****¨¨*****¨¨*****¨¨
Deine Zauber binden wieder

[Peter]

Hi Zauber - I'm not sure how many Brazilians you'll find here, but there are plenty of Beethovians!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

And a few more Schubertians!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Nightklavier]

And one supreme Handelian

[Rod]

Originally posted by Nightklavier:
And one supreme Handelian

Ah, but it is still Beethoven who is my benchmank by which all others are judged. All of the major forms he attempted, he remains unsurpassed. Only the grand oratorio he left out, and grand oratorio in the classical style serves no useful purpose to my mind, it was and remains a dead genre for composition after Handel. Late in his life Beethoven had ideas of producing some big oratorios, but had he lived I am certain nothing would have come of it.

I think to a degree I can only accept Handel because he excelled in areas that were not really Beethoven's concern or were obsolete or never existant forms in Vienna during his time. If Handel has written piano sonatas and trios I would have chosen one way or the other!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-19-2006).]

[Frankli]

Originally posted by Rod:
Ah, but it is still Beethoven who is my benchmank by which all others are judged. All of the major forms he attempted, he remains unsurpassed. Only the grand oratorio he left out, and grand oratorio in the classical style serves no useful purpose to my mind, it was and remains a dead genre for composition after Handel. Late in his life Beethoven had ideas of producing some big oratorios, but had he lived I am certain nothing would have come of it.

I know that it isn't a big oratorio, but in this particular part it certainly is Handel who, through Mozart, inspires Beethoven!
http://www.frank.dds.nl/Etc/Tito.mp3
http://www.frank.dds.nl/Etc/Christus.mp3

[This message has been edited by Frankli (edited 09-19-2006).]

[Rod]

I think Beethoven sounds closer to Handel than your Mozart extract. I have Christus.. so I think I know what piece of it you are presenting here!

While I am here I've uploaded my own preferred, Bartoli free, recording of 'Lascia la Spina' from the Naxos recording of 'Trionfo..' What a treat to the ears...
http://www.mysharefile.com/v/2373094...paina.wma.html

Do you still want the fortepiano test frankli?!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-19-2006).]

[Frankli]

Originally posted by Rod:
I think Beethoven sounds closer to Handel than your Mozart extract. I have Christus.. so I think I know what piece of it you are presenting here!

Yes, but it is clear that Beethoven more or less copied his chorus from the La Clemenza piece by Mozart, who in turn was inspired by a "broad" Handel chorus.

While I am here I've uploaded my own preferred, Bartoli free, recording of 'Lascia la Spina' from the Naxos recording of 'Trionfo..' What a treat to the ears...

Thanks for that. It's better than Bartoli's over the top performance, but still not fully satisfying to my taste.
I must have an excellent countertenor performance somewhere; can't find it right now. Or is it the Rinaldo version?

Do you still want the fortepiano test frankli?!

Oh yes!

[Rod]

Originally posted by Frankli:
Yes, but it is clear that Beethoven more or less copied his chorus from the La Clemenza piece by Mozart, who in turn was inspired by a "broad" Handel chorus.

I think you are living in fantasy world here. The tito chorus is not a good one, by Handel or Beethoven's standards. Beethoven's chorus is not so broad in any case. I've heard much better versions of the the Christus finale than your extract, which sounds rather rushed and underplayed to me.

I'll think of something for the fp test tomorow.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-19-2006).]

[Frankli]

Originally posted by Rod:
I think you are living in fantasy world here. The tito chorus is not a good one, by Handel or Beethoven's standards. Beethoven's chorus is not so broad in any case. I've heard much better versions of the the Christus finale than your extract, which sounds rather rushed and underplayed to me.

Yes, I live in a fantasy world, which is something like a permanent holiday. But the Tito chorus should not be measured by a Handel or a Beethoven standard. It's Mozart, though inspired by Handel, and in his Tito it makes a great impression. The sound examples make clear that Beethoven plagiarized the Mozart chorus.
Concerning the recording: I think it shouldn't be played too slow. It's not Edward Elgar! Anyway it's the only one that I have which is played with period instruments.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Frankli:
Yes, I live in a fantasy world, which is something like a permanent holiday. But the Tito chorus should not be measured by a Handel or a Beethoven standard. It's Mozart, though inspired by Handel, and in his Tito it makes a great impression. The sound examples make clear that Beethoven plagiarized the Mozart chorus.
Concerning the recording: I think it shouldn't be played too slow. It's not Edward Elgar! Anyway it's the only one that I have which is played with period instruments.

Elgar? are you sure you've uploaded what you think you have? It lasts just a few seconds at any tempo. I fail to see the connection between the two regardless, you sure you're not Newman under a different name? I have that recording myself, and I think that brief section is played incorrectly.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Zauber:
Hi, friends, i'm new here! I want to know some brazilians to chat! My real name is Juvenal and i am from Sao Paulo!

*****¨¨*****¨¨*****¨¨*****¨¨
Deine Zauber binden wieder

You see what you've joined! Anyway if you're still around after that highly unusual welcome could you tell us a bit about the classical music situation in Rio and your own love for Beethoven?

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
You see what you've joined! Anyway if you're still around after that highly unusual welcome could you tell us a bit about the classical music situation in Rio and your own love for Beethoven?

Well he's just joined and got free access to three pieces of music in his chain. Not bad for a first try!

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Frankli]

Originally posted by Rod:
Elgar? are you sure you've uploaded what you think you have? It lasts just a few seconds at any tempo. I fail to see the connection between the two regardless, you sure you're not Newman under a different name? I have that recording myself, and I think that brief section is played incorrectly.

No matter how incorrect it is played, the connection between the two pieces is clear. They are much like each other.

Which leads to two possible conclusions: Beethoven leaned heavily on Mozart composing this particular music, OR it supports the theory by the late Victor D. Hanky that Mozart and Beethoven (and Haydn) actually never composed a single work, but payed a certain Stanislav Pedro Lemmerdap (1732 - 1827) to do so, and published them under their own names.
It's up to you, Rod!


[This message has been edited by Frankli (edited 09-20-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Frankli:
No matter how incorrect it is played, the connection between the two pieces is clear. They are much like each other.

Which leads to two possible conclusions: Beethoven leaned heavily on Mozart composing this particular music, OR it supports the theory by the late Victor D. Hanky that Mozart and Beethoven (and Haydn) actually never composed a single work, but payed a certain Stanislav Pedro Lemmerdap (1732 - 1827) to do so, and published them under their own names.
It's up to you, Rod!


[This message has been edited by Frankli (edited 09-20-2006).]

Heck this IS Robert! I fail to see the connection so I will fail to give you a response!



------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin