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    #16
    Originally posted by euphony131:
    Hi all,

    For the final say on all this Pop vs. Classical debate, I submit the following link where a "Paul" cogently extolls the merits of Classical as out-weighing Pop. After all - a "burrito" is still a burrito no matter how you slice it and a gourmet meal in Paris is, well, a gourmet meal in Paris.

    Follow the link to his next letter where he challenges his rival's assertion that Classical music is sex-less. His analogy of the "8-foot dominitrix"(Classical) in front a "troop of feckless boy scouts"(Pop) is hilarious!

    And don't get me wrong -- I enjoy a burrito myself once in awhile, but the stuff can get old very fast especially when you hear it blaring out at you everywhere you go: malls, bookstores, work-place, theatres, coffee-shops, car stereos, neighbors...JESUS! Take a break ah-ready!

    And it should be no surprise who really is the more open-minded of the two groups -- Classical-lovers or Pop-lovers. The vast majority of Classical-lovers also listen to other forms of music including some Pop, whereas the vast majority of Pop-lovers don't give a rat's behind about Classical or anything close to it. So whose more narrow-minded? The Britney Spears/Limp Bisket fan who gives the middle-finger to all things Beethoven or the Beethoven fan who occasionally dabbles in Pop? End of discussion.

    Not quite the end, but I generally agree with your position, though those you say do not typically give a rats behind certainly do if you inform them that you're into classical, a whole range of negative preconceptions reveal themselves. But some of this is the fault of the CM establishment and CM fans, whilst the rest is an anti-intellectual reaction induced by peer-group influences. It seems to be natural human instinct to support ones own 'team' at the expence the opposition, more so within music genres - recall the Handel v's Bach debate here. I remember back in 1984 there was massive interest in the 'clash of the titans' Van Halen v's AC/DC at the Donnington Rock Festival, when that type of music was at the peak of its popularity. AC/DC won of course. I think it is more healthy to play such games within the genre, as did Beethoven himself. Comparing utterly different worlds serves no useful purpose other than make you look paraniod. If pop music is crap, it is because it is crap pop music. The same goes for classical.

    ------------------
    "If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

    [This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-27-2001).]
    http://classicalmusicmayhem.freeforums.org

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      #17
      Yes, it is absolutly true : there is beautiful and bad, both in Pop or Classical.
      Why cm is a question of personnality (like to prefer rice or spaghettis...). Maybe we do like also difficulties. To pay my singing lessons in Italy I sang every evening pop one year, with all the feelings I could give. But I chosed what I liked... so what was at this time for me "good pop music". If I had made a career as pop singer it would have been easier....
      But to live with B., Haendel.... makes me happier even if the study is harder !

      ------------------
      Claudie
      Claudie

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        #18
        Hi Claudie. What kind of pop did you sing? Claudie et Les Beatles: Sont es mon qui vent tres bien ensemble?!?........(I'm such a smoothie)..........

        ------------------
        PDG (Peter)

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          #19
          Aqua wrote: "The only music I don't like is Arabic and Chinese music- Just can't stand the stuff."

          I’m no expert, but perhaps you dislike Chinese and Arabic music since they’re based on chromatic or pentatonic tones. Then again, I think Iranian and Japanese music may also be so centered. Has anyone heard Korean music? It sounds (the pieces I heard were part of an annual festival) extremely dissonant and screechy to my ears. At least Chinese and Arabic music have some detectable form of continuity. Accustomed to western music, the eastern scales take a bit of acclimation, but if one is used to it or grew up in the east, eastern music is equally soulful and mellifluous. And as for the villagers, I suspect their awe stems as much, if not more, from the fact that music is flowing out of a generator as the music itself. Amazed since they’re used to hearing music performed by people, not music ex machina, if you will. We’re all drawn to new gadgets and innovations.

          Euphony131 wrote: "After all - a "burrito" is still a burrito no matter how you slice it and a gourmet meal in Paris is, well, a gourmet meal in Paris."

          Let me draw an analogy: my parents heap seafood onto their plates whenever we eat at a buffet presumably because seafood is more expensive and they’re "getting more for their money." I, however, like chicken. Invariably, I end up munching on chicken as they’re cracking their crab and lobster. They always reprimand me for choosing the commonplace and I always rebut that I don’t like seafood, so regardless of higher cost, it’s not worth my money to eat seafood. The point is, if you like the burrito more than the gourmet meal, no matter what the experts write or the rest of the world says, you wouldn’t take the gourmet meal even if it was free.

          "but the stuff can get old very fast especially when you hear it blaring out at you everywhere you go: malls, bookstores, work-place, theatres, coffee-shops, car stereos, neighbors...JESUS! Take a break ah-ready!"

          Would hearing classical played everywhere all the time become irritating, too? And a while back, didn’t someone post a article arguing, via support for "Yes We Have No Bananas," that pop can be just as valid and worthwhile as classical?

          Rod wrote: "if you inform them that you're into classical, a whole range of negative preconceptions reveal themselves."

          Seems that the people who show scorn for classical do so not because they dislike it but because they don’t want to appear uncultured. Classical has a reputation as "refined" music—they don’t relate to it for whatever reason, and fearing that they may not have the "intellect" to appreciate it, they avow dislike. In essence: "it’s not that I can’t understand it, I just don’t choose to since I dislike it." The problem seems to be acceptance not of cm but of their own tastes.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Jin:
            Seems that the people who show scorn for classical do so not because they dislike it but because they don’t want to appear uncultured. Classical has a reputation as "refined" music—they don’t relate to it for whatever reason, and fearing that they may not have the "intellect" to appreciate it, they avow dislike. In essence: "it’s not that I can’t understand it, I just don’t choose to since I dislike it." The problem seems to be acceptance not of cm but of their own tastes.
            I think there are several reasons they actively dislike cm - the main one being image. Pop is all about image - I guarantee that if rock stars performed sitting down in suits and were balding middle aged men, (or worse still, middle aged women!) pop music would die the death! Classical music also suffers from limited exposure - for example, the last time I remember a Beethoven concerto on tv here in the UK was at 5.00am about 2 years ago!
            Classical concerts on tv are a rarity and when they do occur, they are usually either modern works or a 4 hour Opera!

            ------------------
            'Man know thyself'

            [This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-25-2001).]
            'Man know thyself'

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Peter:
              I think there are several reasons they actively dislike cm - the main one being image. Pop is all about image - I guarantee that if rock stars performed sitting down in suits and were balding middle aged men, (or worse still, middle aged women!) pop music would die the death!
              Balding, middle-aged women would be all the rage, though.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by PDG:
                Balding, middle-aged women would be all the rage, though.
                For 5 minutes!

                ------------------
                'Man know thyself'
                'Man know thyself'

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Peter:
                  For 5 minutes!
                  So you think it would be a case of hair today, gone tomorrow? I agree - give them all wigs; after all, Haydn wore one. Made by Tommy Hilfiger, I believe.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Ah, s'il y'a une langue qui inspire les emotions du coeur, c'est le francais! La plus belle langue du monde! Claude's msg's make me wanna speak all cultured-like, y'know? BTW, did that make any sense to les francophones? J'espere!

                    Anyway, I strongly believe that, yes, c.m. suffers from a very poor image. There is no reason I can think of why classical music can't be sexed up like pop. We're not talking slutty, simply arousing and sexual... Has anyone seen the new album "born" by Bond? They are a female string quartet who play "pop-ified" ersatz classical music. Their cd booklet features Vanity Fair stylized photo spreads and close-ups of these four attractive women. Album's doing quite well on the charts, so far as I know...

                    While it is a very large stretch to call "born" a classical album, you all get what I'm getting at.

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                      #25
                      Well, now much though I'd love to share a bath tub with the babes of Bond.....



                      I fear they may be too hirsuit, Serge, too hirsuit for classical acceptability.

                      ------------------
                      PDG (Peter)

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                        #26
                        Impressive graphics, PDG!!!
                        (However, we can't say the same about your French..)
                        C'est dommage!

                        Mary

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by MCS:
                          Impressive graphics, PDG!!!
                          (However, we can't say the same about your French..)
                          C'est dommage!
                          Mary
                          Mary, Mary, quite contrary! I think vous are getting moi mixed up with Serge. My French is bon. Now, no more slander or it's Madame Guillotine for vous!!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Well... your french is better than my poor english anyway !!!... I do not find that french is the most beautiful language : it is richer than some others (???)... but for me italian sound like good music (mi piaciono molto gli spagetti... e il vino buono !!!)
                            Yes, francophones love B. too : his music is universal, it speaks direct to the heart of the listener. And there are people with heart in all the world. Even in the land of Madame Guillotine...


                            ------------------
                            Claudie
                            Claudie

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Well, I'm half French, so I'm biased.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                [QUOTE]Originally posted by PDG:
                                [B] Mary, Mary, quite contrary! I think vous are getting moi mixed up with Serge. My French is bon. Now, no more slander or it's Madame Guillotine for vous!!

                                Yikes!! Let's not go losing our heads there, PDG! We're all friends here...You know, fraternite, egalite and all that!! Certainement, votre French is tres bon! Now put that weapon away before someone gets hurt!
                                (BTW, is hirsuit an article of women's clothing?)

                                Mary(who is not really very contrary at all, but quite easy to get along with)

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