Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Lost Works of JS Bach

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    The Lost Works of JS Bach

    THE LOST MUSIC OF JS BACH

    There are reasons to believe a great deal of music by Johann Sebastian Bach disappeared within a few years of his death in 1750 (some, perhaps, even earlier) so I would like to make this brief post on the subject. (It’s an area I want to devote myself to study in detail when I finally get time – hopefully within a few years time).

    Perhaps the largest group of missing works by JS Bach are church cantatas, these (according to several lines of evidence and as is generally agreed) amounting to 120 cantatas or so in all. Certainly a huge number of around that magnitude. According to scholars JS Bach composed not less than 5 complete cycles of church cantatas of which we have, today, approximately 3. The missing figure is certainly over 100. These are generally believed (though not unanimously) to have been cantatas written for a 4th and 5th Leipzig cycle. Therefore late works. We know the 4th cycle used texts by C.F. Henrici (usually known as Picander). And surviving individual works from a 5th liturgical cycle, said to have been composed between 1729 but not finally completed until the 1740s, (most of them composed before 1735) complete this picture. A considerable other number of works may also have existed. Reference is made around the time of Bach’s death to him having composed ‘many’ magnificats. There are several lost Passions. And there is the known loss of at least 15 secular cantatas, many of these written for marriages, civic functions, etc.
    Though it’s commonly believed these works were somehow scattered amongst Bach’s sons and later lost/destroyed there are enough clues to suggest these works may actually have survived and may one day be rediscovered. Horror stories of music being used to wrap meat, or used by house servants to light fires (as in the case of at least one stage work by Schubert) may not have been the fate of these works.
    Further support for such large numbers of cantatas having been written is in the large number of chorales, many of these (though by no means all) used in surviving cantatas. So the fate of this lost music seems (to me at least) to have involved its likely transfer to other owners and the chance it was wantonly destroyed seems minimal.


    [This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 09-20-2006).]

    #2
    Not an easy task, I wish you well with it.

    Have already checked the loft and my fire lighters!

    ------------------
    Fidelio

    Must it be.....it must be
    Fidelio

    Must it be.....it must be

    Comment


      #3
      Dear Robert;

      I suggest that we all check those bundles of old papers in our attics before we call in the junk collectors!! You never know what treasures await us!


      Hofrat
      "Is it not strange that sheep guts should hale souls out of men's bodies?"

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by robert newman:
        THE LOST MUSIC OF JS BACH

        There are reasons to believe a great deal of music by Johann Sebastian Bach disappeared within a few years of his death in 1750 (some, perhaps, even earlier) so I would like to make this brief post on the subject. (It’s an area I want to devote myself to study in detail when I finally get time – hopefully within a few years time).

        Perhaps the largest group of missing works by JS Bach are church cantatas, these (according to several lines of evidence and as is generally agreed) amounting to 120 cantatas or so in all. Certainly a huge number of around that magnitude. According to scholars JS Bach composed not less than 5 complete cycles of church cantatas of which we have, today, approximately 3. The missing figure is certainly over 100. These are generally believed (though not unanimously) to have been cantatas written for a 4th and 5th Leipzig cycle. Therefore late works. We know the 4th cycle used texts by C.F. Henrici (usually known as Picander). And surviving individual works from a 5th liturgical cycle, said to have been composed between 1729 but not finally completed until the 1740s, (most of them composed before 1735) complete this picture. A considerable other number of works may also have existed. Reference is made around the time of Bach’s death to him having composed ‘many’ magnificats. There are several lost Passions. And there is the known loss of at least 15 secular cantatas, many of these written for marriages, civic functions, etc.
        Though it’s commonly believed these works were somehow scattered amongst Bach’s sons and later lost/destroyed there are enough clues to suggest these works may actually have survived and may one day be rediscovered. Horror stories of music being used to wrap meat, or used by house servants to light fires (as in the case of at least one stage work by Schubert) may not have been the fate of these works.
        Further support for such large numbers of cantatas having been written is in the large number of chorales, many of these (though by no means all) used in surviving cantatas. So the fate of this lost music seems (to me at least) to have involved its likely transfer to other owners and the chance it was wantonly destroyed seems minimal.


        [This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 09-20-2006).]
        Considering his already vast output it is incredible that so many additional works could be lost. I'm not up on recent Bach discoveries but has anything come to light?

        ------------------
        'Man know thyself'
        'Man know thyself'

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Peter:
          Considering his already vast output it is incredible that so many additional works could be lost. I'm not up on recent Bach discoveries but has anything come to light?
          Yes; last year they discovered the work for choir "Alles mit Gott und nichts Ohn' Ihn".
          And of course there is the sensational rediscovery of the socalled Alt-Bachisches Archiv in Kyiv, some years ago. Although it's mainly music from other Bach's and there is nothing from JS himself there that we didn't know yet (if I am right), the discovery offers some hope for future discoveries in eastern Europe.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Frankli:
            Although it's mainly music from other Bach's and there is nothing from JS himself there that we didn't know yet (if I am right), the discovery offers some hope for future discoveries in eastern Europe.
            I'll have a word with my Polish hairdresser!

            ------------------
            'Man know thyself'
            'Man know thyself'

            Comment


              #7
              Here's a story on one of his recent discoveries along with a picture of the manuscript.
              http://kbaq.org/music/thisweek/20060903

              ------------------
              'Truth and beauty joined'
              'Truth and beauty joined'

              Comment


                #8


                At a conservative estimate, that would suggest at least another 60 plus hours of music by JS Bach - a quite amazing thing to consider !

                The little work I've done on this so far has been to question the assumption that Bach wrote a 4th and 5th cycle of cantatas at Leipzig. If not then, clearly we must consider he wrote 2 currenly lost cycles of cantatas before he even came to Leipzig. In this way the 5 cycles would make just as much sense.

                As far as I know, the only Bach material in Russia (or in former Soviet territory) is that already catalogued in Germany prior to WW2. Much of it (as mentioned) already in the process of being returned to Germany from Ukraine and much of it by other members of the Bach family.

                I personally think these missing works may have come to Italy. It's well known JS Bach's youngest son, J.C. Bach (1735-1782) converted to Catholicism and went to study music in Italy (Bologna) in 1756. But his conversion was only the last of several - Hasse had gone there much earlier (1722) and remained there till 1734. In 1760 (10 years after JS Bach's death) JC Bach was appointed organist at Milan Cathedral. And Hasse lived in Venice for the last 10 years of his life after leaving Vienna.

                That Hasse may have somehow had access to some Bach cantatas before he became Kapellmeister in Venice (1727). At that time JS Bach was at Leipzig.

                Curiously, during his earlier post at the court of Prince Leopold of Anhalt-Cothen (1717-1722) Bach is traditionally assumed to have had 'little time for church music' (writing mainly instrumental works). I think it possible he was active in church music there with the two missing cycles coming from this very time. If so, (as suggested above) these 2 unsuspected cycles may be the lost ones and may somehow have come with Hasse to Italy. (It's known that Bach was keen to disperse his works around churches of the towns where he was working).

                Hasse himself must definitely have spoken of Bach in Italy in the late 1720's. And Bach, by this time, was already very busy at Leipzig. Hasse himself is credited with having written 100 or so church works within a year or so of his arrival in Italy. I would like to see these works.


                Comment

                Working...
                X