"Coffee Mornings"

[Rod]

Robert Newman wrote:
"Wetherspoons sounds very civilized - I hope Rod will also agree. Where is the branch you have in mind ? I am more than happy to come along if I am free. I want to ask Rod more about his music collection and am writing here whenever possible in less than 3 paragraphs to get into his good books !"


The chain has been closed but this warrants a response. Would you beleive it Robert, but there is a Wetherspoons directly over the road from out current venue (Nero Cafe, outside Holborn Stn, London). However although I usually drink my beer in Wetherspoons I like my coffee in a real coffee house (or something approching that). The Americano in Nero's is first class, but the price is £1.95 for a large one. I suspect the coffee will be 99p in Holborn Wetherspoons, not 69p, as it is a city centre establishment and their prices are higher for these.

All things considered Nero is the ideal venue for me. I am there with my most patient wife every Sunday morning circa 11.30am, usually staying to around 2pm.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-12-2006).]

[robert newman]

Sounds fine Rod. Since there is a Wetherspoon almost over the road we can meet as usual at the cafe and cross later - or stay there - whatever. I am not sure of this Sunday. Will try though. Hope our friend can come.

Oh, this reminds me Rod - were you ever able to hear that vinyl recording of Dinu Lipatti playing the Grieg and Schumann concertos ? If not please let me know.

Regards

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Sounds fine Rod. Since there is a Wetherspoon almost over the road we can meet as usual at the cafe and cross later - or stay there - whatever. I am not sure of this Sunday. Will try though. Hope our friend can come.

Oh, this reminds me Rod - were you ever able to hear that vinyl recording of Dinu Lipatti playing the Grieg and Schumann concertos ? If not please let me know.

Regards

It would be conceivable to go to the bar after the cafe. That time would be better as the bar is largely empty late morning/early afternoon.

I haven't heard the album yet, still trying to find someone with a turntable. My mother threw hers away! You can have it back anytime of course.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-12-2006).]

[robert newman]

It brings tears to my eyes to think of record players being dumped. Well, the reason I asked of the disc is because I now have on my computer the 3rd movement of the Schumann recording. It (to many people over the years) is sublime. Lasts about 10 minutes so I will send it to you this morning. Would appreciate you view on it at least.

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

It brings tears to my eyes to think of record players being dumped. Well, the reason I asked of the disc is because I now have on my computer the 3rd movement of the Schumann recording. It (to many people over the years) is sublime. Lasts about 10 minutes so I will send it to you this morning. Would appreciate you view on it at least.

make sure you do a low res copy. I have trouble downloading large mp3s.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

It brings tears to my eyes to think of record players being dumped. Well, the reason I asked of the disc is because I now have on my computer the 3rd movement of the Schumann recording. It (to many people over the years) is sublime. Lasts about 10 minutes so I will send it to you this morning. Would appreciate you view on it at least.

I should have know better to ask a technophobe like you to do a lo-res mp3, I downloaded your 9mb file at work. I've just listened to it and on this first hearing I would say the performance and the music are generally competent, apart from a couple of slightly strange moments of orchestration. The piece is lively but he (S) could have worked a bit harder on his basic thematic material, nothing here is all that memorable to my mind, certainly from a Beethovenian perspective. The general characteristic Romantic treatment of course I don't like.

If you'd give me an 'angle' on the music that impresses you in particular it would make the job easier for me, or is it just the pianist? if you'd heard my recording of B's 5th Concerto by Arthur Schoonderwoerd and the Cristofori Orchestra I doubt you'd ever listen to the Schumann piece ever again.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 09-12-2006).]

[robert newman]

Well Rod, Dinu Lipatti (according to virtually all concert pianists) was one of the very greatest performers of the 20th century. That Schumann recording is phenomenal. He, Lipatti, remains to this day virtually unsurpassed in his technical and interpretive accounts of virtually all works that he recorded. Not just my opinion but that of pianists and music lovers alike. But I note that it means nothing to you. Ha !

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Well Rod, Dinu Lipatti (according to virtually all concert pianists) was one of the very greatest performers of the 20th century. That Schumann recording is phenomenal. He, Lipatti, remains to this day virtually unsurpassed in his technical and interpretive accounts of virtually all works that he recorded. Not just my opinion but that of pianists and music lovers alike. But I note that it means nothing to you. Ha !

Well you know Beethoven is the Alpha and the Omega for the piano as far as I am concerned. Do you not have anything of his performed by Lipatti? To be honest I was a little surprised you asked me of all people to review a Schumann performance.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Frankli]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well you know Beethoven is the Alpha and the Omega for the piano as far as I am concerned. Do you not have anything of his performed by Lipatti?

Is there actually any Lipatti recording of Beethoven in existence? I have never heard of one - except, of course, the famous wiped out Waldstein.

[robert newman]

You are right Frankli. There was a Lipatti recording of the Waldstein deleted by some silly technician. (Speaking of which there is a very rare recording of a Beethoven sonata by Nikolai Medtner that is reputed to be truly extraordinary (described as a fusion of old and new piano styles) but I've never heard it- not sure it's the Appasionata or the Waldstein). I saw briefly that it has been released on CD with other works by Medtner.

Yes, Lipatti recorded works by Scarlatti, Chopin, Bach, Ravel, Mozart, Grieg, Schumann etc. If anyone has come close to his sublime performance of the first keyboard partita of Bach I would like to know of it ! Or how about his cadenza for the Greig concerto ? He plays the same cadenza as a thousand other pianists but his is astounding - and on a mono recording !

Rod is not too keen about Lipatti's Schumann concerto. I think the only pianist to have come close to Lipatti in this work is Martha Argerich.

There are works by Chopin in the Lipatti legacy but I won't mention his name to Rod - who says Beethoven has no equal in piano music. I beg to differ - the names of Chopin, Alkan, Medtner, Prokofiev and of course Rachmaninov come to mind. Still, it's nice that he is open to listening (even if 'what he hears' remains a mystery). Ha !

Regards

p.s. If that deleted 'Waldstein' tape still exists it may, (who knows ?) one day be possible to retrieve it - such things are not beyond the realms of possibility.


[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 09-16-2006).]

[Frankli]

Rod is not too keen about Lipatti's Schumann concerto. I think the only pianist to have come close to Lipatti in this work is Martha Argerich.

Lipatti is something special, I agree. It's a while ago that I listened to the famous Schumann recording, will put it on the list and listen one of the next days.
Of course there is no-one who played Chopin like he did. Still, oldfashioned as I am, I believe that Chopin's subtlety really asks for a Pleyel 1836.
(Sigh) yeah, if Lipatti only had possessed one.

There are works by Chopin in the Lipatti legacy but I won't mention his name to Rod - who says Beethoven has no equal in piano music. I beg to differ - the names of Chopin, Alkan, Medtner, Prokofiev and of course Rachmaninov come to mind. Still, it's nice that he is open to listening (even if 'what he hears' remains a mystery). Ha !

That's certainly a good attitude! Has he heard the Schumann already?
But in fact I agree with Rod about Beethoven as being THE piano composer. No other composer has invented such a variety in character and form for the piano as did Beethoven; no-one had so strong the urge to experiment and discover the possibilities of both the piano and musical form in his character in order to obtain unheard-of ways of expression.

[robert newman]

I agree completely that Beethoven scaled heights in his works for piano that, as a whole, have never been matched, breaking new ground in form and content to an amazing degree. I was of course joking when I said that Rod has not 'heard' the Lipatti Schumann. It's just that I think Beethoven had immense impact on piano music during his lifetime and ever since. Although there is no Beethoven recording by Lipatti there is a live recording of Mozart 21st Concerto. But I still think great music can be written and was written which had little or no debt to Beethoven. Schubert's sonatas are a classic example - born virtually under the nose of Beethoven and far, far less appreciated even now.

I love, adore, Beethoven. He is one of the few composers that one can listen to knowing in advance that one is going to be privileged to do so. Had Lipatti recorded Beethoven I really believe Rod (and us) would be ecstatic about the results.

Regards

[Rod]

Originally posted by Frankli:
[b] That's certainly a good attitude! Has he heard the Schumann already?

Yes I have and I provided my review of it earlier in this chain.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin