Rousing finales!

[Serge]

Looking back on a Rasumovsky-quartet thread, I remembered that there was a point where you people discussed some of the more thrilling climaxes or finales in the Ludwig oeuvre. So, I would like to ask here what you all consider as perhaps your top five or so thrilling finales in any genre. Not only can we get a bearing of what we consider fast and loud, but we may even be reminded of works that need to be revisited!

Here're mine, so far:

presto of the 9th, 4th mov't
finale of the Choral Fantasy
finale of the Egmont overture
last mov't of the Apassionata
last mov't of the Pathetique

There are others I'm forgetting, but I'm forgetting them.

[Rod]

How about the Leonore II/III overtures?


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

I can't agree about Leonore, no.2: the climax sounds little more climactic than the intro to me! For great climaxes, I always think of contrasts among the moods of a piece; thus, I love the brilliant, runaway tribute to Haydn at the end of the Serioso Quartet, compared to all the minor-mode drama which preceeds it.

A Top 5? Gosh! Off the top of my head.......

Sonatas opp.57 & 110;
Symphony no.9;
Quartets opp.59/3 & 132;
Archduke Trio, op.97;
Violin Concerto (just for the final BOOM! BOOM!).

Oops, that's 7.........sorry, don't know what to leave out.

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PDG (Peter)

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
I can't agree about Leonore, no.2: the climax sounds little more climactic than the intro to me!

Don't know what you mean PDG. The intro is little more than two calls to attention in no2. The closing 2 minutes are considerably more 'climactic' in my opinion.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Serge:
Looking back on a Rasumovsky-quartet thread, I remembered that there was a point where you people discussed some of the more thrilling climaxes or finales in the Ludwig oeuvre.

I stick by my original choice of Razumovsky no.3 finale, finale symphony 7, finale symphony 5, piano concerto 4 finale (coda), finale string quartet Op.18 no.1(coda).

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 05-11-2001).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Serge:
Looking back on a Rasumovsky-quartet thread, I remembered that there was a point where you people discussed some of the more thrilling climaxes or finales in the Ludwig oeuvre. So, I would like to ask here what you all consider as perhaps your top five or so thrilling finales in any genre. Not only can we get a bearing of what we consider fast and loud, but we may even be reminded of works that need to be revisited!

Here're mine, so far:

presto of the 9th, 4th mov't
finale of the Choral Fantasy
finale of the Egmont overture
last mov't of the Apassionata
last mov't of the Pathetique

There are others I'm forgetting, but I'm forgetting them.

Good question. Well, I have to agree with the 4th mov't of the 9th. That last minute and a half always gets my heart racing. Also, the last mov't of the Apassionata and Pathetique.
Also, the last mov't of the Moonlight Sonata I would have to add. The finale of Sym. 7 and 5 and how about the finale of Sym. 8? A pounding (and I do mean pounding) ending. I think I've gone over my alotted 5, sorry. So easy to do.
Joy

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:
Don't know what you mean PDG. The intro is little more than two calls to attention in no2. The closing 2 minutes are considerably more 'climactic' in my opinion.

Yes, I should have been more specific. I don't consider this overture to be great Beethoven music, & IMHO, the last couple of minutes are relatively tame, esp. in view of what the music is trying to convey; namely, the arrival of the king's representative. The opening call to attention promises more than ends up being delivered!

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PDG (Peter)

[PDG]

Originally posted by Joy:
Good question. Well, I have to agree with the 4th mov't of the 9th. That last minute and a half always gets my heart racing. Also, the last mov't of the Apassionata and Pathetique.
Also, the last mov't of the Moonlight Sonata I would have to add. The finale of Sym. 7 and 5 and how about the finale of Sym. 8? A pounding (and I do mean pounding) ending. I think I've gone over my alotted 5, sorry. So easy to do.
Joy

Joy,

We both seem to have trouble counting to 5! And yes, Symphony no.5, OF COURSE!.....(slaps forehead)......

I just played the renegade (sorry, Peter!) 8th Symphony again. What a finale! Only Beethoven could mischievously extricate himself from F sharp minor, & then stride, majestically, through the last few bars in F major.

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PDG (Peter)

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
I just played the renegade (sorry, Peter!) 8th Symphony again. What a finale! Only Beethoven could mischievously extricate himself from F sharp minor, & then stride, majestically, through the last few bars in F major.

I just wouldn't describe the 8th as renegade! - that last movement which you yourself rave about is bordering on late Beethoven in its originality - the form is unprecedented with two developments and two recapitulations - a combination of sonata form and rondo. To me this work is greater even than the 7th, because of its subtlety and wit - Beethoven agreed with me!

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
Yes, I should have been more specific. I don't consider this overture to be great Beethoven music, & IMHO, the last couple of minutes are relatively tame, esp. in view of what the music is trying to convey; namely, the arrival of the king's representative. The opening call to attention promises more than ends up being delivered!

I suggect you must be refering to some other composition, or you must have one hell of a lame recording in your collection, which is quite possible with regard to Beethoven.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I just wouldn't describe the 8th as renegade! - that last movement which you yourself rave about is bordering on late Beethoven in its originality - the form is unprecedented with two developments and two recapitulations - a combination of sonata form and rondo. To me this work is greater even than the 7th, because of its subtlety and wit - Beethoven agreed with me!

I would say the finale of the 8th has a vaguely Hungarian feel to it, a style which B had some occasional interest in. A frenzied Hungarian dance. Certainly not to my ears the quasi-baroque style of the late period however.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:
I suggect you must be refering to some other composition, or you must have one hell of a lame recording in your collection, which is quite possible with regard to Beethoven.

No, not the wrong composition. I feel that both Leonora 2 & 3 are too long for the purpose for which they were written, & for the thematic material used. Each of these runs for about 14 minutes in my collection (sounds about right to me). The snappier, shorter overtures: Fidelio, Egmont & Coriolanus are perhaps his most successful efforts. I also like the tuneful King Stephen.

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PDG (Peter)

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
Fidelio, Egmont & Coriolanus are perhaps his most successful efforts. I also like the tuneful King Stephen.

I prefer Leonora 3 to the Fidelio overture.

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'Man know thyself'

[Michael]

I am very partial to Leonore Number One (the Overture, that is). It seems to be the ugly duckling of the four operatic overtures, but I find it very tuneful especially in its use of Florestan's theme.
And listen to what brilliant use Beethoven makes of stereo, near the beginning where the theme travels from left to right (or is it the other way round?) I tell you, the man was centuries ahead of his time! I must listen out for some multi-channel effects in his late quartets.

Michael

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
No, not the wrong composition. I feel that both Leonora 2 & 3 are too long for the purpose for which they were written, & for the thematic material used. Each of these runs for about 14 minutes in my collection (sounds about right to me). The snappier, shorter overtures: Fidelio, Egmont & Coriolanus are perhaps his most successful efforts. I also like the tuneful King Stephen.

Leonore ii and iii are too long and out of context to begin the opera as it finaly stood, but ok for the much broader original concept. But both are valid concert pieces on their own. I'm not sure that both lasting about 14 mins should be about right - no iii is a reduction of noii! Both are typically played too broadly (espec noii) for my taste in the first place. One rarely hears a 'snappy' rendition of the Egmont. This is usually performed allegro ponderoso!!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin