The Schumanns and Brahms

[Chaszz]

Excellent recounting of the tragic situations of Robert and Clara Schumann and Johannes Brahms.
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/...837289,00.html

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Excellent recounting of the tragic situations of Robert and Clara Schumann and Johannes Brahms.
http://arts.guardian.co.uk/features/...837289,00.html

Dear Chaszz;

Thanks for the great article. It was a pleasant break from the "Cantata War" raging elsewhere on this forum.


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Chaszz;

Thanks for the great article. It was a pleasant break from the "Cantata War" raging elsewhere on this forum.

Hofrat

There's no war, it's a simple matter of truth and fiction. I'm surprised you have not found the strength to put in your own two pennies worth as you have on many other occasions here.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Rod:
There's no war, it's a simple matter of truth and fiction. I'm surprised you have not found the strength to put in your own two pennies worth as you have on many other occasions here.

Dear Rod;

It is not a question of strength. My father used to say: "Blessed is the man who abstains from proving verbally that he has nothing to say!"

Anyway, I still am waiting for Robert's paper on the Kraus-Vogler-Figaro conspiracy, so any contribution to the Luchesi-Beethoven-cantata connection or the Luchesi-Haydn-Mozart debate will keep him from completing that.


Hofrat

[gprengel]

Lately I have got a new interest in Schumann and Brahms eventhough so far I never felt so much in love in their music as in Mendellsohn,Tschaikowsky and Dvorak among the composers from the Romantic period .
Maybe you can help me to discover some good gems which I don't know yet?

So far I love:

Schummann:
- symphonies #3 in Eb and #4 in d
and 4th mov. from #2
- violin concerto in d
- a few overtures, especially the great Manfred Overture
- song cycle "Dichterliebe"

Brahms:
- all symphonies, especially #4
- 1st piano concerto
- the most beautiful violin concerto
- German Requiem
- Tragic Overture
- Piano sonata in C
- Handel variations
- Intermezzo for piano in Eb from op. 118

The rest of these composers usually I found not really exciting, especially their chamber music... Am I missing here something which you could recommend to me?

Gerd

[Nightklavier]

gprengel - Have you heard Schumann's Fantasy in C major Op. 17, his Piano Concerto in A minor Op. 54, Piano Quintet Op. 44?

Gazing at what you listed under Brahms (and loved), I think there's plenty more you would find satisfying: the String Quartets, String Quintets, String Sextets, Piano Quartets, Variations on a Theme of Haydn, Paganini, Schumann. Oh, and you didn't mention Brahms' Piano Concerto No. 2, which is a must.

[robert newman]

I rate the Schumann A Minor Concerto as being one of the very greatest piano concertos ever written. (The Dinu Lipatti reoording still seems matchless to me). There are moments in the first movement (with that lovely dialogue between the keyboard and woodwinds, for example) and of course the incredible last movement, that make me think poor Schumann could so easily have lived a happier and more productive life. But I love that work and, as time goes by, I love more and more of what we have of this great composer. Brahms was a more solid personality, far more 'safe' in what he did. Some lovely things of course. But I doubt that he deserves to be rated as one of the 'three B's' next to Bach and Beethoven. Berlioz for me ! Ha !

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by robert newman:

I rate the Schumann A Minor Concerto as being one of the very greatest piano concertos ever written. (The Dinu Lipatti reoording still seems matchless to me). There are moments in the first movement (with that lovely dialogue between the keyboard and woodwinds, for example) and of course the incredible last movement, that make me think poor Schumann could so easily have lived a happier and more productive life. But I love that work and, as time goes by, I love more and more of what we have of this great composer. Brahms was a more solid personality, far more 'safe' in what he did. Some lovely things of course. But I doubt that he deserves to be rated as one of the 'three B's' next to Bach and Beethoven. Berlioz for me ! Ha !

I have to agree on the Berlioz, also!!

Schumann´s piano works are a must have for me, not only as one who enjoys playing the music but also for listening. I think that he is often underrated.

Thanks for the article!

[Chaszz]

Brahms' symphonies, though already listed, rate another mention. They are tremendous excercises in form and expression. And Brahms is one of the richest and most sensitive of orchestrators. His Third Symphony, for example, is redolent of the feelings, colors and even the scents of the countryside in autumn: the orange, umber, sienna and Indian red colors, the smells of pine needles and woodsmoke, the sighing falls of the leaves as the year wends to its end. He is one of the great depictors of landscape in music through his creative use of the colors of the orchestra.

For a mighty piece of chamber music, try his piano quintet. This could easily be a symphony, so large-scale, dramatic and complex is its structure. The use of the piano as a rhythmic entity is almost like jazz, particularly in the third movement.

[Nightklavier]

For an even better Brahms experience, I also recommend Naxos' extensive "Four-Hand Piano Series." The Symphonies and the German Requiem on piano provides some of the most sublime and breathtaking experiences; I don't miss the orchestra at all.

But I'm a complete Brahms heretic because I actually became familiar with his music ONLY through the four-hand arrangements. That is, I first encountered and experienced Brahms' orchestral music when it was played on piano. After I heard all 16 Volumes of Naxos' series, I then listened to the same pieces in original orchestral form. It was quite a unique journey and I doubt many others (except some in the late 19th century) followed the same route. Thus Brahms' efforts to disseminate his music through the custom of piano arrangement has succeeded 200 years after.

Regardless of my own experience, I think any Brahms fan would enjoy his orchestral works in four-hand arrangements. You'd be surprised what four hands can summon from the piano.