advice anyone?

[lauren]

These are all very good ideas. I have wathced Amadeus with him and he didn't enjoy it. Nightklavier, what you said about your girlfriend sounds very similar to what I feel. Too bad she has no taste in music and doesn't like you playing piano for her. I think it is great you are pursuing music and making a profession out of it.

I think giving my bf time would not do anything. He has some other good qualities, but the way he makes fun of my passion makes me realize that he is not "the one"

Lauren

[Nightklavier]

Originally posted by lauren:
He has some other good qualities, but the way he makes fun of my passion makes me realize that he is not "the one"

Yes, that is not something you want from a loved one. He should be supportive and sensitive to your passions. Sorrano, PDG, Peter and others had some good ideas; you might still want to try some other music with him. See if he enjoys virtuosic Romantic piano stuff. Put in Chopin's Revolutionary Etude, or Liszt's transcendental etudes; try the Dante Sonata or Totentanz to show him classical music is not prissy tinkly Mozart. Rachmaninoff's Prelude in C sharp minor is also a good one. I don't know; just try the heavy piano music and see if you make any headway.

I'm a staunch supporter that people CAN be converted to classical music because I was. I used to listen to Marilyn Manson, Deftones, Korn, and all of that screaming hard rock. However, one day I heard Beethoven's Moonlight sonata and my whole life changed forever. The only difference with me is, I discovered it by myself; no one pushed it on me. That is not the case here because you're trying to expose him to the music you like.

I don't know your boyfriend well enough, but I still say don't give up on him yet.

[robert newman]

This whole area is difficult. We all have the same experience, of playing an exquisite piece of music that goes over the heads of those we care about. It can drive us crazy. Especially if we are just coming to a specially lovely passage when the person says, 'Well, my hobby is golf' or something !!! Agghhhh !!!

I hardly know what to advise, except to suggest that if music, great music, is precious to a person then the companions we have in life must have an affinity with that music - without which there is a part of us they never love nor can ever love. Whether that fact is important or not is a matter of individual choice, of course.

[Joy]

Originally posted by PDG:

Originally posted by Joy:
Yea, drop him! (Just kidding) although you generally cannot teach an old dog new tricks. I've had some experience with this ..........You can always join us here where we all have a love of this music and share our views on it, that's what places like this are all about, that and learning.

Joy, sorry to juxtapose your thoughts, but in some ways classical music cannot replace a boyfriend or girlfriend! Now get back to your orchestra pit! (forgive me...)

Ha! Ha!



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Joy]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Something you might consider is teaching him about the personalities of the composers rather than try and convert him to the music. If he can appreciate some of the issues they had to face and the ways that they overcame obstacles, for example, he might be more open to some of their music.

Good idea, Sorrano! Sometimes learning about the person is more interesting (to some) than the music. For me, I like both!



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[Joy]

Originally posted by lauren:
These are all very good ideas. I have wathced Amadeus with him and he didn't enjoy it.

Lauren

He's hopeless!!



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[Athea]

Originally posted by Joy:
He's hopeless!!

Oh, really hopeless, as I can see. But why making fun for listening to classical music? That's a bit harsh, from boyfriend.

[Sorrano]

The key is to find common ground with him in relationship to classical music. If not from a musical point of view maybe from an historical point of view. But if there are no common grounds it becomes a point of sore contention in the relationship and that is simply not a good thing.

[robert newman]

Don't know if this helps but in recent years I have started to understand a little more of how to reply when asked why I like classical music so much.

Firstly, the fact that it was sometimes written centuries ago is, to me, irrelevant. (I suggest that this aspect would bore those not interested in it anyway). It does not matter to me when Mount Everest was first climbed. It matters to me only that it WAS climbed. In the same way I think these exquisite works by Beethoven, Bach and the great composers are what they are, regardless of their age.

Secondly, music whose sole and chief characteristics are nothing but its relentless (and often very loud) beats cannot, on any reasonable grounds claim to be music worthy of a shelf life longer than those pharmaceuticals which can relieve us of the headaches it creates. And this is demonstrated in the short life of much that is fashionable in music today.

Finally, it is clear that the finest works of music can in many respects be compared to the finest wines. But if a person has never tasted wine it is of course highly unlikely they will appreciate the very finest vintages even if they were to taste them. And in this respect it can be argued that the finest works of a Beethoven or a Bach are no finer to the person who hates classical music than are the very worst classical music. Therefore, I think, a person who wishes to introduce great music to another might be wise to introduce him/her first to modern versions of great works (of which there are many) before asking them to now listen to the original version of the same.

The great composers are asking us to listen. We must be patient too when asking those who know nothing of their works to listen also.

Sometimes the unmusicality of others is part of our own musical education.

[Nightklavier]

Robert - I respect what you said, and I also believe that the problem classical music poses for others is the patience it requires. I've always believed the human mind too inferior and incapable of grasping great music on a first hearing. I remember the first time I heard Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D... at a concert hall where I could apply my strictest and utmost concentration. Well, I couldn't follow it. I found the violin part dizzying and I could only relate to that main theme played by unison strings (the only one that felt catchy to me at first). After at least 5 more hearings through a CD recording, I began to understand the intricacies of the music, the brilliance of the structure, and I realized that the greatest music takes repetition in order to even remotely absorb it.

No one can listen to the Grosse Fugue on a first hearing and possibly "get it." Maybe a musically gifted or educated person who has been exposed to all other works of Beethoven can follow along, but the average person cannot. So I think that's the main challenge for people; this music requires patience and the passion to remain patient, whereas Eminem or Blink 182, which requires the most patience I could ever muster to endure it, manages to seduce the sheeple and masses instantly with their catchy little 3-chord sequence, 2 different notes played as a beat, or repetitive lyrics.

Play a Beatles song for someone and then play Beethoven's Op. 131 and the person will, unless he or she is inclined to like classical music, most often pick the Beatles. However, I bet if that person heard the Opus 131 a good 3 or 4 times in a row, it would suddenly dawn on them how great the music is. The Beatles song is still good for them, but suddenly the Beethoven appears good also.

So I must reiterate that classical music requires too much patience for some and so they will never give it a chance... I feel sad for those people who never get this experience. I've listened to the last movement of Beethoven's Op. 110 in complete darkness and felt and saw images in my head like I was having an out-of-body experience. And I just don't think you can get that from a 50 cent rap song.

[Athea]

Originally posted by robert newman:

The great composers are asking us to listen. We must be patient too when asking those who know nothing of their works to listen also.

Sometimes the unmusicality of others is part of our own musical education.

One of my experience: Now I don't have any boyfriend to make fun of me, but there is other problem with members of my family. They sometimes let me doubtful whether classical music is really music for all. I think that IS open for everybody and I still believe, but... I don't remember them listening to this sort of music. And I don't think somebody like bored teenager. Horror to see their sneering faces when I want to play something for them. So they have never had sufficient experience with music, however, they hate it, and often it's painful when they sent me away angrily if I want to listen, play or sing. They will not listen to anything, watch films like Amadeus, learn about composer's life, that's simply hopeless. So I still hope.

When somebody doesn't like classical music, that doesn't entail that he must hate it for all his life, he can change opinion someday... On the contrary, changing the others can be impossible, if someody doesn't like, he doesn't like, but making fun of somebody for love of classical music isn't just nice. I have never heard about making fun of listening to rock, rap etc.

Perhaps there are some prejudices, some people will never get chance to listen to this great music only because they look down on it without any knowledge. This is maybe worse than people who have heard something, but they don't need hear it. Classical music can bring us a lot, sometimes surely much more than other ordinary sorts of music, but it mainly depend's on people themselves if they want to listen.

[Peter]

Originally posted by Athea:
Classical music can bring us a lot, sometimes surely much more than other ordinary sorts of music, but it mainly depend's on people themselves if they want to listen.

[/B]

Precisely and it is important to recognise that everyone is entitled to their own likes and dislikes - we shouldn't try to force classical music on anyone, it is a personal thing.

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'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 08-20-2006).]

[Joy]

Originally posted by Nightklavier:
I've listened to the last movement of Beethoven's Op. 110 in complete darkness and felt and saw images in my head like I was having an out-of-body experience. And I just don't think you can get that from a 50 cent rap song.

Exactly. I've done the same thing with some of Beethoven's works! Extraordinary!



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[Joy]

Originally posted by Athea:

Originally posted by robert newman:

The great composers are asking us to listen. We must be patient too when asking those who know nothing of their works to listen also.

Sometimes the unmusicality of others is part of our own musical education.

And I don't think somebody like bored teenager. Horror to see their sneering faces when I want to play something for them. So they have never had sufficient experience with music, however, they hate it, and often it's painful when they sent me away angrily if I want to listen, play or sing. They will not listen to anything, watch films like Amadeus, learn about composer's life, that's simply hopeless. So I still hope.

Luckily, I don't have that same kind of problem. My nephew likes classical music and films and his friends do too. As a matter of fact, one of his friends takes piano lessons and when he comes over he plays classical music which is always enjoyable to listen to.


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[Ateach Asc]

Originally posted by lauren:
My boyfriend hates classical music and makes fun of me alot for listening. Any advice on how to get him to come around to some music we both can enjoy? It's starting to really bother me.

The biggest mistake most women make is trying to change the habits of their companions. If he doesn't like something there's no point in changing that prejudice. Just accept his likes and dislikes for what they are and move forward.

The best part of all this is that he likes you...


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Must it be? It must be!