the history of Fur Elise

[Cetto von Cronstorff]

Originally posted by Frankli:
[b] Check this example:
http://www.frank.dds.nl/Etc/Therese.JPG

It shows how "Elise" could be read where "Therèse was written".
It is well-known that Nohl, who discovered the autograph in 1865, had problems with interpreting Beethoven's handwriting, especially with the old-German, which Beethoven still used in 1810.

But the sample you refer to (which is not from the original manuscript, but a reconstruction by Jos van der Zanden) is not in old-German, but in latin script.

Nohl discovered the autograph in the inheritance of a lady whose family had been related to the Malfatti's, and the Malfatti's had a daughter named Therese whom Beethoven was in love with for a while. In fact, Therese had given it to this lady before her (T's) death in 1851.

Unger's theory has been proved inaccurate quite a while ago. The autograph came into the possession of Babette Bredl in Munich via the pianist Rudolf Schachner, who in 1851 had inherited all of Therese von Drossdik's musical scores.

Btw Beethoven didn't explicitely compose the piece for Therese; the first sketches can be found in the Pastoral sketchbook,

Since Beethoven had only sketched a piano figure (which also appears in the last movement of Op. 31/2) and didn't present her with a sketch, we can be certain that he explicitly composed the piece for Therese.

[sknox]

Any information about B'n writing Fur Elise on a napkin?

I was once told that Beethoven wrote Fur Elise on a napkin at a cafe. I can find no verification of this. Does anyone know what part of this may be true or what the truth is? I've following the discussion of Elise versus Therese with some fascination. Thanks for helping; I need the information for a memoir piece I'm writing.

[Hofrat]

There is an interesting article by Kopitz that appeared on the Internet recently that offers another candidate for Elise. The writer suggests that Elise was Elisabeth Rockel, a singer and younger sister of the tenor who sang the role of Florestan in "Fidelio." She used the nickname Elise and later married Hummel.

[Peter]

I was once told that Beethoven wrote Fur Elise on a napkin at a cafe. I can find no verification of this. Does anyone know what part of this may be true or what the truth is? I've following the discussion of Elise versus Therese with some fascination. Thanks for helping; I need the information for a memoir piece I'm writing.

First I've heard this, but possible since he sketched some of the late quartets on the shutters of a window! I should however think it more likely fiction.

[Michael]

First I've heard this, but possible since he sketched some of the late quartets on the shutters of a window!

If it was the Grosse Fuge somebody must have slammed the window on him.

[Sorrano]

I was once told that Beethoven wrote Fur Elise on a napkin at a cafe. I can find no verification of this. Does anyone know what part of this may be true or what the truth is? I've following the discussion of Elise versus Therese with some fascination. Thanks for helping; I need the information for a memoir piece I'm writing.

I've read that Schubert, at cafes, used to compose waltzes on napkins, the tablecloth, or whatever else was handy but I haven't heard anything of that nature from Beethoven.

[Peter]

If it was the Grosse Fuge somebody must have slammed the window on him.

Ouch!

[Cetto von Cronstorff]

This excellent article (in German) presents the current state of research:

Für Elise

[Michael]

I wonder if this is the same article in English (for the one or two of us that don't speak German):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fur_Elise

[Roehre]

There is an interesting article by Kopitz that appeared on the Internet recently that offers another candidate for Elise. The writer suggests that Elise was Elisabeth Rockel, a singer and younger sister of the tenor who sang the role of Florestan in "Fidelio." She used the nickname Elise and later married Hummel.

It seems that a "scientific" article will be published in Bonner Beethovenstudien 6

[Cetto von Cronstorff]

I wonder if this is the same article in English (for the one or two of us that don't speak German):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fur_Elise

No, it isn't. Especially Chiantore's hypothesis hasn't got a leg to stand on. Regarding Kopitz's theory see my recent posting. The 'Elise' picture must not be taken serious, it is a artificial 'reconstruction' by Jos van der Zanden.

[Michael]

There is another version of "Fur Elise" at the "Unheard Beethoven" website. It's supposed to be revised by Beethoven. I can't remember it's catalogue number, but I downloaded it some years ago. Much of it is unchanged but the revised portions sound downright weird.

[Roehre]

There is another version of "Fur Elise" at the "Unheard Beethoven" website. It's supposed to be revised by Beethoven. I can't remember it's catalogue number, but I downloaded it some years ago. Much of it is unchanged but the revised portions sound downright weird.

Do you mean the orchestrated version (which still can be found as WoO 59)?

[Michael]

No, although it has the same WoO number (59). You can see it here above the orchestrated version:

http://www.unheardbeethoven.org/sear...l?criteria=woo

[Bonn1770]

Julie: "Hello, Mr. Beethoven, what's that?"
Beethoven: "Oh, just a little piece I'm working on. And please, call me Ludwig."
Julie(nervously): "It's beautiful. What's is it called?"
Beethoven: "I was thinking of calling it 'Fur Julie'"
Julie(blushing madly): "Oh Beethoven,really....?"
Beethoven: "Absolutely. Here let me show you the first notes. Come sit next to me..."

...from some crude internet site I'd much rather not link to.