Emil Ludwig???

[ruudp]

Does anyone know something about this man...a friend of mine claimed that beethoven was bisexual and may have had relations with his nephew...I clearly dismissed those thoughts as rubbish but he used Emil ludwig as some kind of reference stating that the good man was an early biographer of Beethoven...could someone set this straight please?

*no pun intended in the word choice of the last sentenceXDXD*

[This message has been edited by ruudp (edited 08-01-2006).]

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by ruudp:
Does anyone know something about this man...a friend of mine claimed that beethoven was bisexual and may have had relations with his nephew...I clearly dismissed those thoughts as rubbish but he used Emil ludwig as some kind of reference stating that the good man was an early biographer of Beethoven...could someone set this straight please?

*no pun intended in the word choice of the last sentenceXDXD*

The only decendant of Beethoven that I know of is the nephew Karl. Karl had five children of which one was male named Ludwig after his illustrious uncle. This grandnephew had only one child who lived past infancy named Karl.

So, this Emil Beethoven is not a decendant of Ludwig van Beethoven as far as I can determine.


Hofrat

[Peter]

Originally posted by ruudp:
Does anyone know something about this man...a friend of mine claimed that beethoven was bisexual and may have had relations with his nephew...I clearly dismissed those thoughts as rubbish but he used Emil ludwig as some kind of reference stating that the good man was an early biographer of Beethoven...could someone set this straight please?

*no pun intended in the word choice of the last sentenceXDXD*

[This message has been edited by ruudp (edited 08-01-2006).]

After the death of his brother, Beethoven regarded himself as Karl's father and his love for the boy (which became over possessive) should be viewed from that standpoint. Beethoven took his duties as father very seriously, and by today's standards his treatment of karl can be seen as extremely harsh.

Emil Ludwig's biography is 20th century and he therefore was not an early Beethoven biographer. I have not read the book so cannot comment on the claims of your friend. There also exists the rather ludicrous psychoanalytical study of Beethoven by the Sterbas which does make some very silly suggestions such as Beethoven regarding himself as Karl's mother rather than father - Need I say more!

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Michael]

Originally posted by Peter:

Emil Ludwig's biography is 20th century and he therefore was not an early Beethoven biographer. I have not read the book so cannot comment on the claims of your friend. There also exists the rather ludicrous psychoanalytical study of Beethoven by the Sterbas which does make some very silly suggestions such as Beethoven regarding himself as Karl's mother rather than father - Need I say more!

I wouldn't dismiss these theories entirely out of hand, Peter. The Sterbas have also proved rather conclusively that Beethoven was actually born on the planet Mars.

Michael

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by Peter:
After the death of his brother, Beethoven regarded himself as Karl's father and his love for the boy (which became over possessive) should be viewed from that standpoint. Beethoven took his duties as father very seriously, and by today's standards his treatment of karl can be seen as extremely harsh.

Emil Ludwig's biography is 20th century and he therefore was not an early Beethoven biographer. I have not read the book so cannot comment on the claims of your friend. There also exists the rather ludicrous psychoanalytical study of Beethoven by the Sterbas which does make some very silly suggestions such as Beethoven regarding himself as Karl's mother rather than father - Need I say more!

----------

Dear Peter,

I have the Emil Ludwig book. There is no suggestion in the book of Beethoven's bi-sexuality.

In any case, when Emil Ludwig wrote Beethoven's "biography", sexual references were not the topic of the day. The book is
definitely not a definitive Beethoven biography. (Sorry about the play on words).

Regards,
Agnes.

[PDG]

Originally posted by Michael:
The Sterbas have also proved rather conclusively that Beethoven was actually born on the planet Mars.

Michael

Michael, talking about Mars is off-Topic (fancy a chocolate?.....)

[PDG]

[quote]Originally posted by Agnes Selby:

I have the Emil Ludwig book. There is no suggestion in the book of Beethoven's bi-sexuality.


Regards,
Agnes.

One should hope not, Agnes, since it didn't exist!!

[PDG]

Originally posted by Agnes Selby:
.....sexual references were not the topic of the day.

Topic? Mars? Chocolate anyone??

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by PDG:
Topic? Mars? Chocolate anyone??

You have my undivided attention. Oh, sorry, you were saying something (mars....chocolate....)

[DavidO]

Originally posted by Agnes Selby:
I have the Emil Ludwig book. There is no suggestion in the book of Beethoven's bi-sexuality.

Solomon kind of tippy-toes up close to the topic (bisexuality), but never actually refers to it by name & then quickly backs off & that's the end of that.

Solomon's main thrust, of course, is that Beethoven had an Oedipal complex, & that much of his life & his music were physical manifestations of this irrational agon. Solomon is so doggedly Freudian throughout his book on B. that it seriously undermines my inclination to admire its biography.

[Rod]

Originally posted by DavidO:


Solomon is so doggedly Freudian throughout his book on B. that it seriously undermines my inclination to admire its biography.

I'd go further than that, Solomon is in many ways a complete amateur writer and biographer, a bad amateur at that! I'd never recommend any of his Beethoven books (his 'Beethoven Essays' is a similarly amateurish job). I am astonished how his nonsence has been so readily accepted by the musical establishment.



------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin