Constanze Mozart

[Hollywood]

Thank you Agnes for setting the record straight. I truely enjoy reading your postings here and on the Mozart Forum. I have learned so much more about Constanza from you and I hope to find a copy of your book to add to my Mozart collection.

You go girl!

Danke vielmals,
Andrea

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"God knows why it is that my pianoforte music always makes the worst impression on me, especially when it is played badly."
- Beethoven 1804.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hollywood:
Thank you Agnes for setting the record straight. I truely enjoy reading your postings here and on the Mozart Forum. I have learned so much more about Constanza from you and I hope to find a copy of your book to add to my Mozart collection.

You go girl!

Danke vielmals,
Andrea

What do you mean here AND the Mozart forum? This IS the Mozart forum!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by Hollywood:
Thank you Agnes for setting the record straight. I truely enjoy reading your postings here and on the Mozart Forum. I have learned so much more about Constanza from you and I hope to find a copy of your book to add to my Mozart collection.

You go girl!
-----------

Danke vielmals,
Andrea

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Oh, Andrea, I have been thinking about you today. Please write to Catherine Sprague and ask her for my private e-mail address.
Then write to me and I will respond immediately.

Kind regards,
Agnes.

[Hollywood]

Originally posted by Agnes Selby:
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Oh, Andrea, I have been thinking about you today. Please write to Catherine Sprague and ask her for my private e-mail address.
Then write to me and I will respond immediately.

Kind regards,
Agnes.

Agnes, I sent you a P.M. in the Mozart Forum.

Danke,
Andrea



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"God knows why it is that my pianoforte music always makes the worst impression on me, especially when it is played badly."
- Beethoven 1804.

[robert newman]

Dear Agnes,

I'm surprised by the ferocity of your reply.

Please believe I could answer you in great detail but, out of respect for this Beethoven website will not do so here. The story of Mozart's posthumous reputation (taken to the point where church prelates actually funded the opening of the Mozarteum in Salzburg, for example) includes the manipulated creation of two remarkable biographies (one by the Czech censor Niemetscheck and the other by the man who could not tell one end of a trumpet from another - 'Nissen'). That Constanze Mozart was deeply involved in both biographies (and in destruction/alteration of papers) is beyond all doubt. What we have here are biographies being 'written' by completely incompetent people, credited to others even more so, and a catalogue of errors, distortions and downright falsehoods foisted on an unsuspecting public.

Contrary to your statements, Constanze Mozart DID write the preface to the 'Nissen' biography. And these men who helped prior to 1826 were selected with Constanze's permit alone - her husband merely assisting in the cataloguing of material. Furthermore, the convent in Salzburg (to which you refer) does not surprise us by appearing as a factor in this story.

I want to thank you for offering a reply to the questions asked, even if they were (as perhaps they must be from you) none other than those offered by the 'accepted' version of events. May I dare to suggest that in cases where material has been manufactured to create an 'official' version we must never abandon hope that gaps and silence may be made to speak by application of common sense.

Best regards

p.s. I HAVE read Nissen's biography and am as familiar with it as your goodself.

R


[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 07-16-2006).]

[Agnes Selby]

Contrary to your statements, Constanze Mozart DID write the preface to the 'Nissen' biography.

I wonder, where did you get this information?

p.s. I HAVE read Nissen's biography and am as familiar with it as your goodself.

That is great news. As the book has not been translated into English, I gather you have learned to speak German since we last wrote to each other.

Regards,
Agnes.

[robert newman]

Dear Agnes,

I assure you Constanze Mozart wrote the preface to that book. NOT Nissen and not anybody else. (I will return to this later).

Let me begin by quoting your own words. I aked the question in my previous post -

Question - 'At the time of Nissen's death at Salzburg in 1826 what was the state of completion of the book' ?

To which your reply (and I quote it in full) was -

Reply: 'All the material that Nissen could gather was there for him to begin writing the book. He wrote the preface and that is all'.

Now Agnes, it's clear from your own words that Nissen was not the author - he did nothing but help in compiling/classifying material. As (supposedly) did at least 2 others. This process did not include him (Nissen) writing any of the book.

You say the material was there for Dr Feuerstein to begin writing this book - i.e. after 1826. Thus, according to you, NOBODY (not Constanze, not Nissen, not anybody in the entire world, had written anything until the death of Nissen in 1826).

If true Agnes, why is this book known as 'Nissen's biography' ? It is NOT Nissen's biography. Since, according to your own words he wrote none of it ! Is this not a fair and reasonable summary of your view ?

You nevertheless believe that Nissen, who wrote nothing, wrote the preface ! Agnes, if I wrote the preface to your own book on Constanze Mozart (available on Amazon and at all good bookshops) can I on any basis ever be described as its author ? That would be ridiculous.

Now, regarding the preface/introduction. There are things said there that ONLY Constanze Mozart could have known and said.

Finally, regarding your question of whether I have mastered German since we last spoke, no, but I have obtained in the past passages from this work (including the preface/introduction) translated in to English in those many areas which clearly show the input/the narrative comes solely from Constanze Mozart. Since you argue that Constanze before 1826 was not involved in the writing of the book you must now believe that she somehow dictated it to Dr Feurstein AFTER 1826. Is this your view ? Since she and she alone was party to this information - not Nissen, Dr Feuerstein or anyone else. As you say yourself, he (Nissen) wrote nothing.

And yet (again in complete consistency with so much of the Mozart myth) this book remains generally known as Nissen's own. Not Feuerstein's. Where but in the world of Mozart studies could one arrive at such an absurd set of scenarios ?

Yes Agnes, it's crazy that anyone should dare to spend their time arguing on what is so clearly obvious.

Which part of this message do you not understand ?

Regards


Robert



[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 07-16-2006).]

[Agnes Selby]

Robert,

I do not wish to be involved in this discussion.

As I feared, you are twisting my words to advance your conspiracy theories.

I answered your questions and that it where it stands.

Agnes.

[ruudp]

Dear Robert,
I've been reading this thread with much interest as usual but parlayed from responding since I've got very few or no knowledge on both photography and Constanze mozart, But I do sympathize with Miss. Selby, she has most gracefully answered all of your questions *didn't find much of an attacking tone in her post* and only asked of you the courtesy of keeping her words in her own context and not creating legends with every "loophole" which writings tend to cause.I for one am keen on learning and will always try to be open for new insights but why you seem so intent on following the "hard"way, the non-logical way and dismiss all "accepted" views on this topic.It is one thing to be critical towards the authorities, it's a whole other thing to go over the edge with this critisism and try to fuel any stray theory with *subjectively* ambigious wordchoiches/texts/sources of those authorities.
I for one am quite convinced the woman on the picture isn't Constanze Mozart, but that does not make the photograph less valuable, it's still quite unique to see such an old photograph, I always marvel at photographs of for instance Chopin or Liszt, just to think the the latter one's eyes once saw beethoven....if only Photography had been invented earlier...if only.
*pardon my lack of courtesy:$:$*

Best Regards.
[This message has been edited by ruudp (edited 07-17-2006).]

[This message has been edited by ruudp (edited 07-17-2006).]

[robert newman]

Dear Ruudp,

Why did you miss the place where I specifically wrote to thank Agnes Selby for giving some answers ? If you cannot find it please let me know and I will show you.

I don't agree with answers given by Agnes (which are a re-statement of popular belief) and it was I myself (again specifically) who pointed out first that this forum is not the place to answer her in the detail these issues deserve. I can also show where I wrote this if you have difficulty in finding this also.

I apologise to this forum for having pointed out/emphasised that the Nissen biography of Mozart (published first in 1828) contains in fact not a single word written by Nissen.

Best regards

[Joy]

Well, I can put a stop to some of this discussion anyway on the radio they have announced that the photo was, indeed, a fake and that they were bamboozled. Here are their exact words "This week in classical music apologizes for the item last week about the picture of Mozart's widow found in Germany. Apparently the picture is a fraud and a hoax. We're sorry we fell for it, and promise to do better next time." Oh, well, that happens I guess.

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[robert newman]

Thanks for that Joy !

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Thanks for that Joy !

One is reminded of a famous Handel chorus!

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Joy]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Thanks for that Joy !

you're welcome Robert! I thought everyone had a right to know!



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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Joy:
you're welcome Robert! I thought everyone had a right to know!

Not necessary really, you did everyone a favour by ending this chain.



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin