Why do you like Beethoven?

[Rod]

Originally posted by Athea:

Originally posted by Rod:
Maybe THE greatest.

I have heard that Beethoven regarded Missa as his best masterpiece (???)

Yes he described it as such himself.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yes he described it as such himself.

Did he make that statement before or after the final quartets? (I consider the final quartets to be the greatest music ever written.)

[robert newman]

I really like Beethoven's music for all sorts of reasons. Nobody can deny he emerged from the classical foundation of Vienna as its legitimate successor. Yet he eclipsed it. This makes me think the history of great composers can be compared to a succession of people (each quite different in many ways) carrying a musical torch in to the future. We may disagree who these 'torch bearers' are/were. But in my view Beethoven was/is one of them. (I even suggest Berlioz is hugely greater than virtually any 19th century composer other than Beethoven - but this would not be the place to argue it at length). Bach, Beethoven and Berlioz do have things in common. All three were individualists. All three were emphasising the liberty of the individual (rather than simply a traditional corporate identity). Beethoven definitely emphasised the break from a state/church society. Individualism. But Bach too (in his Lutheran faith) had done the same within the realm of church music. The individual, the personal relationship with God - these themes are so strikingly used over and over again by the great Bach.

Who could have imagined that a person such as Beethoven would ever have arrived ? And yet he did. A person who suffered from deafness. It's astounding if he had written even mediochre music. But he wrote what he did. I just marvel at Beethoven's phenomenal gifts.

I've recently been listening very closely to much of Berlioz. He undoubtedly influenced Brahms. Even more so Tchaikowsky. Again, Berlioz was highly individualistic as a person and a composer. Much of his music was also far ahead of his own time.

But I don't think the uniqueness of an individual composer is always so apparent to contemporaru audiences. In Bach's case Jan Dismas Zelenka was in many respects Bach's equal, technically and even stylistically. Again, in the case of Beethoven there were certainly men around who rivalled him. Even temporarily marginalised him. The same is true of Berlioz. All three men seem to have been temporarily overshadowed by the generation in which they lived despite their great abilities.

I'm sure Beethoven's music will live for as long as men value the truths he as a man stood for. Only a noble man (in the true meaning of that term) could have written what the great Beethoven wrote.



[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 07-18-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
Did he make that statement before or after the final quartets? (I consider the final quartets to be the greatest music ever written.)

The quote comes from a letter of 1824 to the publishers Schott and Sons. Admittedly he is trying to 'sell' the work. He mentions the 9th Symphony and the quartet op127 in the same letter, but highlights the Mass as his 'greatest work'. One could say cinically the Mass may have been the hardest to sell so he promoted it the most. On the other hand, although all the pieces are unique masterpieces in their own right, considering the scale of the Mass and the effort involved in its production I doubt if Beethoven would have changed his opinion by 1826.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-18-2006).]