The good in Beethoven

[Preston]

First let me say, I am somewhat new to Beethoven. Now, after reading some of the things on this forum, I was a little bit surprised.

When some people think Beethoven they think: tough, power, darkness, ect. While others, whom I consider right, think peace, life, care, full of love for nature, sprituality, ect.

The reason I feel these ways is because I feel that Beethoven was a good man with serious problems that prohibited him for being able to show his goodness, some of the time. One thing that tells us this is the Heiligenstadt Statement: "O ye men who think or say that I am hostile, stubborn or misanthropic, how greatly do you wrong me!"

The music also tells us this. Charles Hazlewood said that,"When I’m learning a score by Beethoven, we fight like dogs". I feel that is wrong. Alot of Beethoven's music that I have heard is unbelievably peaceful or humorous, spiritual, caring, and filled with life. Beethoven wrote an entire symphony on nature (6th Symphony). Could you imagine all the feelings of life: green grass, blue skies, the earth, water. Now that is extemely good natured.

Some people associate him with his symphonies and not his sonata, concerti, ect. For those people I could see why you think power when you hear them, but you should look more into the composer. Alot of composer's symphonies have a stronger darker side. Take Mozart for example, his mature symphonies had a darker side to some of his movements, as did many of his other works, as did many of Beethoven's.

We are talking about a person so spiritual that he could write the Missa Solemnis. That is amazing.

I was wondering what other people thought about this subject.

Kind Regards,
Preston

[Sorrano]

Beethoven's life was filled with obstacles from just about every facet of life. His own medical circumstances, not to mention social, had all but alienated him from those things he cared about most. Yet in his music, for all the tragedy that is encountered there is the ever striving for victory for consonance in a very dissonant world. Sometimes we focus on the more battle elements of his music, but there is always moments of incredible peace even in the darkest of his works (I think of the middle movement of the Appassionata, for example).

All I can say is that you are absolutely right. And I think that is why Beethoven is our favorite composer (speaking of many here, not all) that he inspires us to be better than what we are.

[Megan]

Beethoven was a character of great strength and virtue.
He may have had his frustrations in life, and a fiery temper,had bust ups with his brothers, but the next day he was begging their forgiveness, kissing them all over.
I think he had a tough upbringing, which is probably manifest in his sometimes tempestuous and sometimes sublimest, tenderist music ever composed.
From a young age he had to cope with an alcholic father who lapsed into depression and intensified family problems, and when his father died Beethoven was forced into the role of becoming head of the family, just at the time he was ready to embark on his incredible musical career.



[This message has been edited by Megan (edited 07-10-2006).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Preston:
First let me say, I am somewhat new to Beethoven. Now, after reading some of the things on this forum, I was a little bit surprised.

When some people think Beethoven they think: tough, power, darkness, ect. While others, whom I consider right, think peace, life, care, full of love for nature, sprituality, ect.

The reason I feel these ways is because I feel that Beethoven was a good man with serious problems that prohibited him for being able to show his goodness, some of the time. One thing that tells us this is the Heiligenstadt Statement: "O ye men who think or say that I am hostile, stubborn or misanthropic, how greatly do you wrong me!"

The music also tells us this. Charles Hazlewood said that,"When I’m learning a score by Beethoven, we fight like dogs". I feel that is wrong. Alot of Beethoven's music that I have heard is unbelievably peaceful or humorous, spiritual, caring, and filled with life. Beethoven wrote an entire symphony on nature (6th Symphony). Could you imagine all the feelings of life: green grass, blue skies, the earth, water. Now that is extemely good natured.

Some people associate him with his symphonies and not his sonata, concerti, ect. For those people I could see why you think power when you hear them, but you should look more into the composer. Alot of composer's symphonies have a stronger darker side. Take Mozart for example, his mature symphonies had a darker side to some of his movements, as did many of his other works, as did many of Beethoven's.

We are talking about a person so spiritual that he could write the Missa Solemnis. That is amazing.

I was wondering what other people thought about this subject.

Kind Regards,
Preston

I think you are right, however I also think others who have highlighted characteristics such as power, darkness are also right - my point is that his music contains all these things. Think of the recapitulation to the 1st movt of the 9th, it is terrifying music of awesome power. Think of the slow movement of the D major sonata Op.10 no.3, it really is dark as is the slow movement of the Ghost trio. Beethoven encompasses all human emotions and goes beyond in his later works to explore incredible spiritual values.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Beethoven encompasses all human emotions and goes beyond in his later works to explore incredible spiritual values.

Yes this is the essence of Beethoven the composer. You really get everything with Beethoven, on a dramatic, technical and emotional level. Which is why the collective output of so many of the others seem to me rather one-dimentional by comparison.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[robert newman]

To me, Beethoven is a musical Declaration of Independence.

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

To me, Beethoven is a musical Declaration of Independence.

Did you manage to download the overture Robert?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[robert newman]

Rod, thanks, no I haven't been able to download the 'Consecration of the House'. Yes, I really love this piece,

Robert

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Rod, thanks, no I haven't been able to download the 'Consecration of the House'. Yes, I really love this piece,

Robert

I put a new link to the piece Robert. Go back to the chain and click on the mysharefile link, you should have no problem.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-11-2006).]

[robert newman]

Thank you Rod !