Did Schindler throw away and change Beethoven's conversation books?

[Preston]

I read here, http://napoleon-series.org/ins/schol.../c_eroica.html that Anton Schindler destroyed two thirds of Beethoven's conversation books and destoyed and changed other things?

Does anyone know if this is true?

Preston

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 07-10-2006).]

[Joy]

Well, it seems true enough considering I have read this over and over again whenever I read about Schindler and Beethoven. Here's one quote among many:

"Schindler was determined to secure Beethoven's reputation for future generations as a God-like figure. He examined all Beethoven's Conversation Books in minute detail, destroying any that cast Beethoven in any adverse light. Into others he inserted spurious details which, among other things, cast himself in a favourable light and exaggerated his influence with Beethoven.

He also wrote the first major biography of Beethoven, but that too contains many inaccuracies.

It was not until the 20th century that scholars were able to unravel some of the truth from the fiction in the material Schindler left."


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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Preston]

Originally posted by Joy:

He also wrote the first major biography of Beethoven, but that too contains many inaccuracies.

Is it possible to get this book?

Kind Regards,
Preston

[Joy]

I read that he was the first to write a Beethoven biography which was first published in 1840 and then revised in 1860.

Here's a link to Amazon where you can buy this book,
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/048...lance&n=283155

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[This message has been edited by Joy (edited 07-10-2006).]

[Preston]

Thank you.

Preston

[Rod]

Originally posted by Preston:
Thank you.

Preston

It is important to remember that the words in these books are not Beethoven's but the questions and responses written by other people, he was deaf but not mute! Hence it was an easy task for Schindler to insert fraudulent entries.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Roehre]

I read here, http://napoleon-series.org/ins/schol.../c_eroica.html that Anton Schindler destroyed two thirds of Beethoven's conversation books and destoyed and changed other things?

Does anyone know if this is true?

Preston

[This message has been edited by Preston (edited 07-10-2006).]

Preston, for my and Peter's opinions about this, please see Msg 13 and 14 of this thread:
http://www.gyrix.com/forums/showthre...3853#post43853

[Preston]

Thank you Roehre. A while ago, I was reading Thayer's book Volume II, and, Thayer wrote about this very thing. Apparently Schindler did throw conversation books away, because, Thayer states something like, "Schindler said he found little value in them".

So, apparently Thayer talked with Schindler and that is what Schindler told him about the missing conversation books. I do not remember which year it was in unfortunately.

[Roehre]

I am not about to question the postings between Messrs. Roehrer and Peter.
If one were to read Owen Jander's study on his so-called "Beethoven's Orpheus Concerto" (piano concerto n° 4), you might be surprised to read his suspicion that Schindler destroyed the sketchbook and relevant entries in the conversation books between LvB and Kanne because of certain references to homosexuality.

Schindler with certainty destroyed some of the Konversationshefte and removed pages of others.

Some of the destroyed ones contained -according to Schindler- political observations by B as well as by his correspondents which could have been dangerous for the latter, as they still were alive and kicking at the time of Schindler selling the whole lot to Berlin.

Others (a.o. George Marek) rightly or wrongly suspect some sexual connotations might have been removed/destroyed as well, regarding homosexuality (IMO highly unlikely) as well as regarding STDs.
The latter IMO certainly a possibillity as surviving booklets show B's (!) handwriting in quotes from Viennese newspapers, e.g. advertisements on books on this subject (as early as 1819/'20).