Which Patron Was The Finest Musician?

[DavidO]

Which among Beethoven's "princely rabble" of patrons do you think was the best musician?

I'm inclined to say it was the Archduke Rudolph himself, who performed the Violin Sonata in G, Op. 96, with Pierre Rode at a concert on December 29, 1812.

The Prince & Princess Lichnowsky also played piano, but how good were they?

How about Zmeskall, an amateur violinist? (How amateur is "amateur"?) Perhaps he wasn't strictly speaking a Beethoven patron.

How about Pasqualati? How skilled was he? Kinsky? Lobkowitz? Baron von Swieten?

I think it was the archduke himself who was the finest musician.

Did Beethoven, in any of his letters or other correspondence, say anything about the comparative musical abilities of his adoring nobles & royals?

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by DavidO:
Which among Beethoven's "princely rabble" of patrons do you think was the best musician?

I'm inclined to say it was the Archduke Rudolph himself, who performed the Violin Sonata in G, Op. 96, with Pierre Rode at a concert on December 29, 1812.

How about Zmeskall, an amateur violinist? (How amateur is "amateur"?) Perhaps he wasn't strictly speaking a Beethoven patron.

I think it was the archduke himself who was the finest musician.

Dear DavidO;

I am inclined to agree with you about Archduke Rudolf. He was one of the 50 "other" pianists who contributed a variation to Diabelli, and contrapunctal at that. He also produced a sizable and well crafted body of music for piano, chamber ensemble, and voice (See Susan Kagan's book).

As for Zmeskall, was he not a 'cellist?


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hofrat:



As for Zmeskall, was he not a 'cellist?


Hofrat

Cellist as far as I am aware. Thayer assumes Z was one of the eyeglass wearers in Beethovens duet for viola and cello '..mit zwei Augenglasern obligato'. The other being Beethoven himself, on the viola.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-07-2006).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by DavidO:
Which among Beethoven's "princely rabble" of patrons do you think was the best musician?

I'm inclined to say it was the Archduke Rudolph himself, who performed the Violin Sonata in G, Op. 96, with Pierre Rode at a concert on December 29, 1812.

The Prince & Princess Lichnowsky also played piano, but how good were they?

How about Zmeskall, an amateur violinist? (How amateur is "amateur"?) Perhaps he wasn't strictly speaking a Beethoven patron.

How about Pasqualati? How skilled was he? Kinsky? Lobkowitz? Baron von Swieten?

I think it was the archduke himself who was the finest musician.

Did Beethoven, in any of his letters or other correspondence, say anything about the comparative musical abilities of his adoring nobles & royals?

I think you are right about the Archduke Rudolph, he was obviously a very able musician, although Beethoven was at times irritated by him as a pupil.

Possibly the finest musician in Beethoven's circle of friends (though not strictly a patron) was Baroness Dorothea Von Ertmann.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[Chris]

Originally posted by Rod:
Cellist as far as I am aware. Thayer assumes Z was one of the eyeglass wearers in Beethovens duet for violin and cello '..mit zwei Augenglasern obligato'. The other being Beethoven himself, on the violin.

Wasn't this duet, WoO 32, for viola and cello? Of course Beethoven played the viola, so it still makes sense.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Wasn't this duet, WoO 32, for viola and cello? Of course Beethoven played the viola, so it still makes sense.

Yes sorry my typo, I'll correct it (Hofrat could have had his revenge there!). You may remember we had a very nice rendition of the first movement here some time ago at the 'Rare Beethoven' mp3 page.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-07-2006).]

[PDG]

Originally posted by Peter:


Possibly the finest musician in Beethoven's circle of friends (though not strictly a patron) was Baroness Dorothea Von Ertmann.

What about Ferdinand Ries? An accomplished composer, too!

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
What about Ferdinand Ries? An accomplished composer, too!

Ries wasn't 'Princely rabble'.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

But he was "in Beethoven's circle of friends", which was the point to which I was responding...

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Rod:
Yes sorry my typo, I'll correct it (Hofrat could have had his revenge there!).

Dear Rod;

"Revenge" assumes that I am a vindictive person, which I am not.


Hofrat

[Rod]

Originally posted by Hofrat:

Dear Rod;

"Revenge" assumes that I am a vindictive person, which I am not.


Hofrat

Perhaps it was too strong a word, let's say 'opportunity'. I think I was distracted by the original poster's reference to the violin, considering I have two recordings of this very interesting and novel duet.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 07-07-2006).]

[Cetto von Cronstorff]

Originally posted by DavidO:
How about Zmeskall, an amateur violinist? (How amateur is "amateur"?) Perhaps he wasn't strictly speaking a Beethoven patron.

He was a Cellist. He was a first rate composer of chamber music. And in his will he even claims to have taken lessons in composing from Mozart.



[This message has been edited by Cetto von Cronstorff (edited 07-07-2006).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:
But he was "in Beethoven's circle of friends", which was the point to which I was responding...

But not the aristocracy. Beethoven of course new many fine musicians, but Dorothy Ertmann was renowned as a fine interpreter of the sonatas and Bethoven singled her out by calling her his Dorothea Caecilia, a reference to the patron saint of music - I don't think he lavished such praise on anyone else. I believe she gave lessons later to the young Mendelssohn.

------------------
'Man know thyself'

[This message has been edited by Peter (edited 07-07-2006).]

[sjwenger]

Were there any musicians so favored by Beethoven that he wrote music specifically for them to play (other than exercises for his students)?

------------------
To learn about "The Port-Wine Sea," my parody of Patrick O'Brian's wonderful Aubrey-Maturin series, please contact me at
susanwenger@yahoo.com

To learn about "The Better Baby" book, ways to increase a baby's intelligence, health, and potentials, please use the same address.

[PDG]

Originally posted by Peter:
But not the aristocracy.

Please believe me, I KNOW Ferdinand Ries was not a member of the Aristocracy!! (Ye Gads...)...