Mozart and The Masons

[Joy]

Heard this on NPR: "The three opening chords of Mozart's Overture to the Magic Flute have some mystical significance in the Masonic order, but on the surface it's pure delight." It will be performed tonight with Claus Peter Flor conducting the Dallas Symphony Orchestra.

Any comments on Mozart's membership to the Masons? And what do they mean about the opening chords having some mystical significance in the Masonic order?

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[PDG]

Originally posted by Joy:

Any comments on Mozart's membership to the Masons? And what do they mean about the opening chords having some mystical significance in the Masonic order?

Both Bach and Beethoven were also masons. Must have been the then-equivalent of a golf club? The new age E flat (Beethoven's favourite major) key was adopted at the time as "the key of the masons". The Mozart overture here is so designated because of the sombre, three-knocks-at-the-door "please let me in to your club" trombone-led phrase about half way through the overture.

[Chris]

Eminenti Apostolatus Specula (Pope Clement XII, 1738) and Providas Romanorum (Pope Benedict XIV, 1751) forbid Catholics from joining the Freemasons. I wonder if Mozart knew about this or if it was something that was commonly ignored?

[PDG]

I'd guess that Mozart certainly knew about it but, in desperation of social standing, chose to ignore it.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Joy:
Heard this on NPR: "The three opening chords of Mozart's Overture to the Magic Flute have some mystical significance in the Masonic order, but on the surface it's pure delight." It will be performed tonight with Claus Peter Flor conducting the Dallas Symphony Orchestra.

Any comments on Mozart's membership to the Masons? And what do they mean about the opening chords having some mystical significance in the Masonic order?

Dear Joy;

I do not know about the Masonic significance of the overture's introduction, but Mozart copied, outright, the main theme (bar 16) from Muzio Clementi!


Hofrat

[jman]

Originally posted by PDG:
I'd guess that Mozart certainly knew about it but, in desperation of social standing, chose to ignore it.

I disagree with this. Even though Mozart may have been the most devout Catholic, I do believe that he was devoted to the enlightenment of mankind through wisdom and spirit. His devotion to this subject is very evident in The Magic Flute as are the ties to the Freemasons. I don't believe Mozart was as member simply for social standing, it was because he believed in their values.

Comments?

Jeff.

[PDG]

Originally posted by jman:
I disagree with this. Even though Mozart may have been the most devout Catholic, I do believe that he was devoted to the enlightenment of mankind through wisdom and spirit. His devotion to this subject is very evident in The Magic Flute as are the ties to the Freemasons. I don't believe Mozart was as member simply for social standing, it was because he believed in their values.

Comments?

Jeff.

Well, I did say it was a guess. He may well have believed in their values but here also was a man who through his weakness for gambling struggled to put food on the family table. He was after all a tortured genius, much lacking in social graces, whose apparent reverance for all things holy was probably a convenient mask for his own ingratiating aspirations. Forgive me if offended, but as an example of what I mean, just look at his disrespectful treatment of his mother and the vulgar letters sent to his own female cousin. A GOOD Catholic?

[Hollywood]

Here is more information on "Wolfgang Amedeus Mozart - Master Mason":
http://www.njfreemason.net/Wolfgang%...s%20Mozart.htm



------------------
"God knows why it is that my pianoforte music always makes the worst impression on me, especially when it is played badly."
- Beethoven 1804.

[Joy]

Thanks everyone for that 'enlightening' discussion and comments.

------------------
'Truth and beauty joined'

[Agnes Selby]

I see absolutely no evidence that Mozart treated his mother without respect.

His letters to his cousin were written in the spirit of joking. Jokes change with time. You will note that similar joking references which we now find offensive were used by Mozart's mother in her letters to her husband, Leopold Mozart.

A study of what was particularly funny in
Salzburg during the 18th century reveals
that a language repugnant to people of the 20th and 21st centuries was used on a daily basis. This too existed in England before the reign of Queen Victoria.

You will also note that a number of Catholic priests were members of Freemasonry in Austria and the provinces.

"Mozart and Masonry" by Paul Nettl is recommended on this subject. Freemasonry was banned in Austria not because of Catholicism but because of fear of a revolution as Freemasons were blamed for
the revolutionary movement in France which saw the death by guillotine of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI.

Regards,
Agnes Selby.

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Agnes Selby:


"Mozart and Masonry" by Paul Nettl is recommended on this subject. Freemasonry was banned in Austria not because of Catholicism but because of fear of a revolution as Freemasons were blamed for
the revolutionary movement in France which saw the death by guillotine of Marie Antoinette and Louis XVI.

Regards,
Agnes Selby.

Dear Agnes;

Thanks for reminding me that I have Paul Nettl's *The Beethoven Encyclopedia*. I looked up the entry on "Freemasonry" and I was surprised to learn that it is not certain whether or not Beethoven was a mason. Beethoven writes to Wegeler in May 1810: "I was told that you are singing a song of mine in your Masonic lodge." Note that Beethoven wrote "your Masonic lodge" not "our Masonic lodge." It seems that Beethoven is excluding himself, but that is my take on the matter. As for the songs, Wegeler took Beethoven's music and used Masonic texts. The songs used: "Opferlied" and "Wer ist ein freier Mann."


Hofrat

[robert newman]

Dear Agnes Selby,

I find it quite astonishing that the Freemasons were at any time blamed for the French Revolution. In point of fact, the first person to publish such nonsense just happens to have been a Jesuit priest. The Freemasons could be and were blamed for anything. But the actual facts are that the Catholic Church and Napoleon Bonaparte made an alliance, by which he rose to power and became the dictator that history shows he was. The aims of Napoleon were entirely supported by the Catholic Church. And it was the extremists of the Catholic Church which turned the peaceful French Revolution in to the bloody nightmare that it became.

Thomas Paine, for example (author of 'The Rights of Man' etc.) voted consistently against the death penalty being imposed on the French king and queen. But the brutality of pro-Catholic forces within France were responsible for the terror of the guillotine that took the lives of thousands, and almost took the life in Paris of Thomas Paine himself.

The French Revolution was the brainchild of the Roman Catholic Church. Sorry to be so frank, but that, to me, is plain fact. It had virtually nothing to do with the Freemasons. In fact, it was Freemasons who were hated by Rome and who had repeatedly been banned by them. You know this very well from Mozart's time.

Robert

[Cetto von Cronstorff]

Originally posted by Joy:
Heard this on NPR: "The three opening chords of Mozart's Overture to the Magic Flute have some mystical significance in the Masonic order, but on the surface it's pure delight."

This is an old and beloved prejudice, and yet it is complete nonsense. Traetta's 'Armida' also starts with these three chords and so does Gazzaniga's 'La Circe'. According to the above logic these operas should have a masonic significance - no way. Gluck's ballet 'Sémiramis' from 1765 has these chords at the beginning. Gluck never was amason. The opening chords of the overture in the 'Magic Flute' are an invocation, an 'annonce', as the French called such instrumental segments in their 'merveilleux' operas.

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Dear Agnes Selby,

I find it quite astonishing that the Freemasons were at any time blamed for the French Revolution. In point of fact, the first person to publish such nonsense just happens to have been a Jesuit priest. The Freemasons could be and were blamed for anything. But the actual facts are that the Catholic Church and Napoleon Bonaparte made an alliance, by which he rose to power and became the dictator that history shows he was. The aims of Napoleon were entirely supported by the Catholic Church. And it was the extremists of the Catholic Church which turned the peaceful French Revolution in to the bloody nightmare that it became.

Thomas Paine, for example (author of 'The Rights of Man' etc.) voted consistently against the death penalty being imposed on the French king and queen. But the brutality of pro-Catholic forces within France were responsible for the terror of the guillotine that took the lives of thousands, and almost took the life in Paris of Thomas Paine himself.

The French Revolution was the brainchild of the Roman Catholic Church. Sorry to be so frank, but that, to me, is plain fact. It had virtually nothing to do with the Freemasons. In fact, it was Freemasons who were hated by Rome and who had repeatedly been banned by them. You know this very well from Mozart's time.

Robert

--------------

Dear Robert, Thank you for your reply.
However, I have to say, that no revolution
is ever peaceful. I cannot think of one in the entire history of our "wonderful", blood thirsty humankind.

Agnes.
------------

[Agnes Selby]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Agnes;

Thanks for reminding me that I have Paul Nettl's *The Beethoven Encyclopedia*. I looked up the entry on "Freemasonry" and I was surprised to learn that it is not certain whether or not Beethoven was a mason. Beethoven writes to Wegeler in May 1810: "I was told that you are singing a song of mine in your Masonic lodge." Note that Beethoven wrote "your Masonic lodge" not "our Masonic lodge." It seems that Beethoven is excluding himself, but that is my take on the matter. As for the songs, Wegeler took Beethoven's music and used Masonic texts. The songs used: "Opferlied" and "Wer ist ein freier Mann."


Hofrat

---------

Dear Hofrat,
I was suprised to read that Beethoven
belonged to the Masonic Order. I have not come across this in my readings on Beethoven. Also, he came to Vienna at a time
when the Masonic order was very much under suspicion and most Lodges had been dissolved.

Thank you for the information about Wegeler.

Regards,
Agnes.