Dissonance - acquired taste?

[Zhire]

I just can't get into it. I just heard Prokofiev's Tocatta and to me, this style of music sounds about as musical as my furnace.

Does it take a developed ear to be able to enjoy this kind of music?

[Peter]

Well I think the Toccata is a very exciting piece if played well - Martha Argerich gave a stunning performance of this. Regarding dissonance, it is an essential element of music and you'll find plenty of it in music as early as Bach. However in the 20th century, music became more dissonant as the tonal system was abandoned.

There was a time when I felt the same as you, but I think more exposure to this music does somehow adjust the ear to the strange sounds. Having said that, give me Beethoven anyday!

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'Man know thyself'

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Zhire:
I just can't get into it. I just heard Prokofiev's Tocatta and to me, this style of music sounds about as musical as my furnace.

Does it take a developed ear to be able to enjoy this kind of music?

Dissonance has a tendency to be relative, anyway. What might be considered very dissonant to your ears in a Beethoven piece could sound very consonant in another piece, just depends on what else goes on in the music.

[Joy]

This piece was played at my Church recently towards the end as people were filing out. I enjoyed it but, as Peter said, give me Beethoven any day!

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Peter]

Originally posted by Joy:
This piece was played at my Church recently towards the end as people were filing out. I enjoyed it but, as Peter said, give me Beethoven any day!

Are you sure it wasn't the Widor Toccata for organ? The Prokofiev seems an odd choice for people filing out of church!

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'Man know thyself'

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by Zhire:
I just can't get into it. I just heard Prokofiev's Tocatta and to me, this style of music sounds about as musical as my furnace.

Does it take a developed ear to be able to enjoy this kind of music?

Dear Zhire;

Well, 500 years ago, perfect fifth chords were considered harsh on the ears!!


Hofrat

[Peter]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Zhire;

Well, 500 years ago, perfect fifth chords were considered harsh on the ears!!


Hofrat

And major 3rds were considered dissonant to the medieval ear.


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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
And major 3rds were considered dissonant to the medieval ear.

Peter I think you were a bit hasty about closing the Cantata chain, for once I think Robert brought up something interesting and relevant! We've never discussed this piece as far as I can remember and its ownership is generally in dispute.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 06-24-2006).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Peter I think you were a bit hasty about closing the Cantata chain, for once I think Robert brought up something interesting and relevant! We've never discussed this piece as far as I can remember and its ownership is generally in dispute.

I don't think so Rod. I think reference to this work was made in the past and I am also aware of Robert's real agenda - the thread would have degenerated into another Luchesi spout, opening up the same arguments already debated ad infinitum.

Back to this thread about dissonance and I wonder which works members consider the most dissonant by Beethoven? The Grosse fugue perhaps?

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'Man know thyself'

[PDG]

What about those big five brass blasts (!) at the end of the development section (though one could argue that the whole movement never stops developing) of the Eroica first mvmnt, Op.55? Surely a musical idea of staggering audacity. It jars rather than surprises (a la Haydn, or even Mozart). Con Brio indeed! Welcome to the nineteenth century?.......

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
I don't think so Rod. I think reference to this work was made in the past and I am also aware of Robert's real agenda - the thread would have degenerated into another Luchesi spout, opening up the same arguments already debated ad infinitum.

Back to this thread about dissonance and I wonder which works members consider the most dissonant by Beethoven? The Grosse fugue perhaps?

Sorry but I do not ever recall discussing or witnessing a discussion regarding this paticular cantata not only here but during my 20 years of being a Beethoven enthusiast.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 06-25-2006).]

[Sorrano]

The storm sequence of the Pastoral Symphony has some dissonances that are not heard in other works of Beethoven. And then, don't forget the discord that opens the finale of the 9th Symphony!

[barata]

Originally posted by Rod:
Sorry but I do not ever recall discussing or witnessing a discussion regarding this paticular cantata not only here but during my 20 years of being a Beethoven enthusiast.

My opinion is that from the 2nd half of the XIX century things started to go bad and when we arrive to the XX I think we hit the bottom. For me the best are Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Vivaldi, Tchaickovsky, Chopin, Verdi, Rossini, etc.
DIssonance is not music. PROOF: CHILDREN HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Peter]

Originally posted by barata:

Originally posted by Rod:
Sorry but I do not ever recall discussing or witnessing a discussion regarding this paticular cantata not only here but during my 20 years of being a Beethoven enthusiast.

My opinion is that from the 2nd half of the XIX century things started to go bad and when we arrive to the XX I think we hit the bottom. For me the best are Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Vivaldi, Tchaickovsky, Chopin, Verdi, Rossini, etc.
DIssonance is not music. PROOF: CHILDREN HATE IT!!!!!!!!!!!

But all the composers you mention make use of dissonance - Bach especially! Music to be interesting needs dissonance and resolution, in other words contrast. The 20th century though in doing away with tonality removed the resolution so we're left with no contrast, just pure dissonance!

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'Man know thyself'

[Zhire]

That's how I feel - there has to be a balance of surprise and predictability.