Authentic Instrument mp3s - Bagatelles Op.126

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[PDG]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

The presented pieces seem to be taken more leisurely than more modern interpretations I've heard. I'm guessing this is because the resonance of the notes takes longer to be established? Wonderfully eclectic, nevertheless. Beethoven of course never heard this music. The six pieces of Op.126 represent his last great piano music, which is a statement in itself (!). Did he, I wonder, ever play the fp being performed upon here? If presented to him, deaf, in 1826, why did the manufacturers strive for him to own it? The bagatelles reveal more about the great man's daily mood swings than any diary ever could.

[Rod]

I can live with the tempi here, it takes some thought to get these pieces right. Usually they are too rushed or too slow, but the tempi here are not a result of the piano but the interpreter, typically you can get a faster run of notes from the fortepiano as the action is lighter and more rapid. This is an old recording, from the 60s and is not perfect, nor I suspect is the condition of the piano - some of the keys sound a little harsh compared to other Graf recordings I have, but the tone overall sounds right and is more colourful and dramatic than any modern concert grand.

For sure he 'tickled the ivories' of this Graf, though his concert days were long gone.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-27-2006).]

[Rod]

I'd like to add that I have a recording of this music with Beethoven's Broadwood too and was originally planning to present here accounts from both this and the Beethoven Graf, but Melvin Tan's unpoetic effort on the Broadwood put me off. I have two other recordings with Grafs by Paul Komen (on a model also to be found in the Beethovenhaus museum) and Jos van Immerseel on a model from a Dutch museum. Komen's account is similarly cool like Tan's but van Imerseel's is much better, though I rejected it in favour of the Beethoven Graf recording because I thought it would stimulate more interest.

The best recording I have heard on the modern piano is (as with the Diabelli Variations) by Bernard Roberts. Every thing is just right here, heartfelt and dynamic but natural, no contrived tricks or overuse of rubato effects. Pity he never found his way to a fortepiano.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin


[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-28-2006).]

[Chris]

Thanks Rod, very enjoyable. I generally like John O'Conor's recordings of the Bagatelles best. I like a lot of what Brendel does with Beethoven, but his recordings of the Bagatelles don't really do it for me.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
Thanks Rod, very enjoyable. I generally like John O'Conor's recordings of the Bagatelles best. I like a lot of what Brendel does with Beethoven, but his recordings of the Bagatelles don't really do it for me.

I have had quite a few B sonatas and variations by Brendel over the years. I much prefered the variations to the sonatas. He injected more character to the former, the latter sounded run-of-the-mill, but I've noticed this from other performers. I don't know much about O'Connor, but you can tell me what he has that Brendel (and Jorg Demus) doesn't...

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

His bagatelles are shaper, cleaner than Brendel's, and he used quicker tempos where I felt they were needed. I have not heard enough Jorg Demus to compare him to O'Conor. I liked what I heard of him here, though.

[Rod]

Originally posted by Chris:
His bagatelles are shaper, cleaner than Brendel's, and he used quicker tempos where I felt they were needed. I have not heard enough Jorg Demus to compare him to O'Conor. I liked what I heard of him here, though.

Fair enough. I'd never heard of Demus before I got my hands on this recording, but I doubt O'Connor's piano can match the lovely tone of Beethoven's Graf . A casual search revealed this link about Jorg Demus: http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=41:1634



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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Well, you know my preferences regarding pianos - I like Beethoven on a modern piano best. Somtimes the best recordings of things are on period instruments (for example, my favorite recording of Op. 119 No. 3 was the one you provided here), but it is always in spite of the period instruments, not because of them.

Not that I have anything against period instruments in general - on the contrary, they are essential for Baroque music and many of my favorite Mozart recordings are on period instruments. But they just don't do it for me when it comes to Beethoven.

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:

This is an old recording, from the 60s and is not perfect, nor I suspect is the condition of the piano - some of the keys sound a little harsh compared to other Graf recordings I have, but the tone overall sounds right and is more colourful and dramatic than any modern concert grand.

Well yes, and of course Beethoven interpretations from the 1960s are now as antiquated and questionable (?) (meaning overly-reverential) as these more modern, far more disposable times of a mere passing interest in apparent genius, or a flavour of the month. One must wonder if a giant mind such as Beethoven's ever considered the advancement of the piano itself, an "unsatisfactory instrument" as he called it?

I think that had he retained his hearing, he may well have become a pioneer in its development. One can imagine him giving sheer hell to anyone who opposed his ideas of a possible 8-octave keyboard! Yeah, it's possible, you know!! (and LvB was only 5" 4').

[/B]

[This message has been edited by PDG (edited 05-28-2006).]

[PDG]

Originally posted by Chris:
Thanks Rod, very enjoyable. I generally like John O'Conor's recordings of the Bagatelles best. I like a lot of what Brendel does with Beethoven, but his recordings of the Bagatelles don't really do it for me.

Yes, thanks Rod from me, too (an unpaid job, i'm sure!). I've always been fascinated by the rushed last few bars of Op.126 no.6. It's as if Beethoven knew this would be his last major contribution in the piano chamber genre, and that he wanted to end on a flourish. This happy-ending facet occurs elsewhere in Beethoven...



[This message has been edited by PDG (edited 05-28-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:

Well yes, and of course Beethoven interpretations from the 1960s are now as antiquated and questionable (?) (meaning overly-reverential) as these more modern, far more disposable times of a mere passing interest in apparent genius, or a flavour of the month. One must wonder if a giant mind such as Beethoven's ever considered the advancement of the piano itself, an "unsatisfactory instrument" as he called it?

I think that had he retained his hearing, he may well have become a pioneer in its development. One can imagine him giving sheer hell to anyone who opposed his ideas of a possible 8-octave keyboard! Yeah, it's possible, you know!! (and LvB was only 5" 4').

Well this interpretation isn't bad to my mind, maybe a bit heavy handed here and there in the 4th Bagatelle. I wouldn't say by default that old is bad and new is good. I've heard much worse from more recent recordings.

Beethoven certainly considered the advancement of the piano from the earliest time of his career. In his mid-twenties the piano manufacturers in Vienna were queuing up to make intruments to his own specification. However as Beethoven became increasingly deaf he would have been less able to assess current piano standards sonically. The Graf you hear at the mp3 page is contemporary with the bagatelles, however the last piano Beethoven would have been able to appreciate fully would have been something from many years before.

Concerning the keyboard span, I think 6.5 octaves is quite enough, I doubt Beethoven would have even found the need to use 8 octaves.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 05-29-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by PDG:
Yes, thanks Rod from me, too (an unpaid job, i'm sure!).

Not at all, Peter has promised me my cheque's in the post.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:


Concerning the keyboard span, I think 6.5 octaves is quite enough, I doubt Beethoven would have even found the need to use 8 octaves.

I was being jocular about this.....

[PDG]

Originally posted by Rod:
Not at all, Peter has promised me my cheque's in the post.

I refer the honourable member to the reply I gave some moments ago.....