Grosse Fugue

[Peter]

Originally posted by PDG:

Serge, please don't judge Mozart on his Fugue - you just won't like it!! Try instead his D minor piano concerto, K.466; even better, the version with Beethoven's cadenzas. It's on Naxos, & you don't even have to look at the cover

PDG you have an uncanny knack of picking the pieces I am either listening to, or playing! - I'm working on Mozart's D minor concerto at the moment - an appropiate work for this forum as Beethoven wrote some fine cadenzas for it. I agree that it is a far better work to approach Mozart with than the fugue - I just think the fugue is Mozart's most extreme work, as the Grosse fugue is Beethoven's.

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'Man know thyself'

[Serge]

It's not a work I would introduce anyone to Mozart's music with, anymore than I would Beethoven's with the Grosse fugue. You probably won't like it, but at least you'll have to admit there's a bit more to Mozart than easy 'nice' music!

/B]

Well, it's not like I'm going to listen to Mozart for the first time in my life. I'm familiar with a lot of his stuff; I just don't actually enjoy much of it. If his k.426 fugue is the most forward-thinking or otherwise Ludwig-ish work, then I'm going straight for it.

I should concede here that there was a piece of M's I kinda liked: last mov't of a p. concerto for 4 hands, k. 3-something-something. Very catchy, if not filled with everlasting emotion

[Peter]

Originally posted by Serge:

Well, it's not like I'm going to listen to Mozart for the first time in my life. I'm familiar with a lot of his stuff; I just don't actually enjoy much of it. If his k.426 fugue is the most forward-thinking or otherwise Ludwig-ish work, then I'm going straight for it.

Do you know the D minor K.466 and the C minor K.491 piano concertos? - both works were much admired by Beethoven, who said of the C minor to Cramer - 'We shall never be able to do anything like that' - an example of B being modest, though this was said in the late 1790's. I think they are much fairer works to judge Mozart by than the fugue which is quite atypical, extraordinary though! Since you are no Mozart or Haydn fan, I wonder what your opinion of the Beethoven of the 1790's is?

Incidentally, the Mozart concerto for 2 pianos you liked is K.365 in Eb.


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'Man know thyself'

[~Leslie]

I'll second that. The k.466 feels like a door was left cracked open for Ludwig, particularly I feel, with the Romanze mvt in mind. It starts off being the warm and fuzzy Mozart, and then without warning, his internal emotional angst rises and boils to the surface, fairly unprecedented, if you consider how polite and polished Wolfgang could be for the type of audience he had to write for. The stage was amply set to B to unleash his perspective and rock the world.~

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Do you know the D minor K.466 and the C minor K.491 piano concertos? - both works were much admired by Beethoven, who said of the C minor to Cramer - 'We shall never be able to do anything like that' - an example of B being modest, though this was said in the late 1790's. I think they are much fairer works to judge Mozart by than the fugue which is quite atypical, extraordinary though! Since you are no Mozart or Haydn fan, I wonder what your opinion of the Beethoven of the 1790's is?

Incidentally, the Mozart concerto for 2 pianos you liked is K.365 in Eb.

Contrary to popular opinion, I would say even Beethoven from the 1790's is still substantially different from that of M or H, if this is the inference of your question.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Contrary to popular opinion, I would say even Beethoven from the 1790's is still substantially different from that of M or H, if this is the inference of your question.

It wasn't the inference at all - I agree with you, it's just that there is a misconception about this which also brackets Mozart and Haydn as though they were one and the same.

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'Man know thyself'

[Roehre]

A lively recent discussion around opus 130 and 133 can be found here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F7...thread=6954287