Beethoven and Birdsong

[robert newman]

At a Symposium of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in 2000 the Curator of Ornithology and Mammology at California’s Academy of Sciences, Luis Baptista, played an extraordinary tape recording of bird song recorded in the wild to an amazed, even incredulous audience. It consisted of one of the most famous musical motifs in all of musical history, that used by Beethoven in the first movement of his 5th Symphony, this being sung by the White Breasted Mexican Wood Wren.

Just as startling was a tape recording made in 1953 which Baptista also played at the same meeting of singing from the European Blackbird (which is apparently rarely heard) which corresponds almost exactly with the lilting opening to the Rondo of Beethoven’s Violin Concerto, Op. 61. (Baptista remarked that reports have been made by several orthithologists that the same tune has been heard as recently as 1991 from the same bird species in the wild – suggesting that Beethoven may have heard this very same birdsong at the time when he wrote his concerto.

RN

[Peter]

I always knew it wouldn't be long before you found arguments to claim Beethoven's symphonies weren't his, but I admit I wasn't expecting a Mexican Wren to have been the original composer of the 5th!

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'Man know thyself'

[robert newman]

Hahahaha !

And imagine if the Greater Crested Icelandic Reed Warbler is credited with the opening theme of Quartet Op. 127 ! Or the Greenland Whale is credited with the Scherzo to Beethoven's 4th !
What will they think of next ?? Or has it already been thought of ?

R

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by robert newman:

At a Symposium of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) in 2000 the Curator of Ornithology and Mammology at California’s Academy of Sciences, Luis Baptista, played an extraordinary tape recording of bird song recorded in the wild to an amazed, even incredulous audience. It consisted of one of the most famous musical motifs in all of musical history, that used by Beethoven in the first movement of his 5th Symphony, this being sung by the White Breasted Mexican Wood Wren.

Just as startling was a tape recording made in 1953 which Baptista also played at the same meeting of singing from the European Blackbird (which is apparently rarely heard) which corresponds almost exactly with the lilting opening to the Rondo of Beethoven’s Violin Concerto, Op. 61. (Baptista remarked that reports have been made by several orthithologists that the same tune has been heard as recently as 1991 from the same bird species in the wild – suggesting that Beethoven may have heard this very same birdsong at the time when he wrote his concerto.

RN

Dear Robert;

I read an article (in the Montreal Gazette I believe) that mentioned the similarity between the European Blackbird's call and the first five notes of the rondo of Beethoven's Violin Concerto. Since Beethoven liked to walk in the woods, it is no wonder that he might "plaigarize" a few bird calls as he did in his 6th Symphony.


Hofrat

[robert newman]

Hi Hofrat,

Yes, and I think it's completely wonderful if this was where he got the theme from. What a remarkable thing.

I know for sure there are certain pairs of birds who sing in counterpoint. And others who sing in sonata form. This subject is barely appreciated from a musicological point of view although I know that Messiaen was one composer who was a keen listener to bird songs. The problem is that whales make music too. So do lobsters ! If they discover that plants sing music too, well !!

R

[Hofrat]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Hi Hofrat,

Yes, and I think it's completely wonderful if this was where he got the theme from. What a remarkable thing.

I know for sure there are certain pairs of birds who sing in counterpoint. And others who sing in sonata form. This subject is barely appreciated from a musicological point of view although I know that Messiaen was one composer who was a keen listener to bird songs. The problem is that whales make music too. So do lobsters ! If they discover that plants sing music too, well !!

R

Dear Robert;

Beethoven was very good with musical effects. Look at *Fidelio* where Beethoven "musically" rolls a boulder, jingles coins, and makes Leonore shiver! And what a magnificent axe drop in Coriolan!


Hofrat

[Michael]

Originally posted by Hofrat:
Dear Robert;

Beethoven was very good with musical effects. Look at *Fidelio* where Beethoven "musically" rolls a boulder, jingles coins, and makes Leonore shiver! And what a magnificent axe drop in Coriolan!


Hofrat

Berlioz worshipped Beethoven but was not impressed by the "boulder-rolling" episode in Fidelio. Also, if I remember correctly, he disliked the bird-calls at the end of the second movement of the Pastoral.

Michael

[Rod]

Originally posted by Michael:
Berlioz worshipped Beethoven but was not impressed by the "boulder-rolling" episode in Fidelio. Also, if I remember correctly, he disliked the bird-calls at the end of the second movement of the Pastoral.

Michael

That's alright, it's only Berlioz.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[robert newman]

'Only' Berlioz !!!!!!!!!!! ?

[robert newman]

'Only' Berlioz !!!!!!!!!!! ?

[Michael]

Originally posted by robert newman:

'Only' Berlioz !!!!!!!!!!! ?

I am a bit like Rod. When any other composer besides Beethoven comes to mind, the word "only" is always there in the background.
I believe there is medication available for this condition but I refuse to take it.


Michael

[robert newman]

Yes, Beethoven was a phenomenal man and had phenomenal talent. There's no doubt about it. His music is truly great.

[sjwenger]

What an interesting post! If anyone would like to hear the bird and judge for themselves, you can hear the white-breasted wood wren frm Mexico at:

http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.ed....wav/view.html



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[Joy]

Whenever I think of Beethoven and birdsongs, I have to think of his Symphony #6 Pastoral and his inclusion of 3 birds, nightingale (flute), cuckoo (oboe), & quail (clarinet). I heard this fantastic Symphony yesterday via the radio while returning home and I also enjoy it!

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

'Only' Berlioz !!!!!!!!!!! ?

It is easy to admire Beethoven, that in itself is not an act of genius. But to make musical critisism such as that mentioned above... Berlioz is not qualified.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin