Listening to Music

[robert newman]

The idea of bathing vinyl records (without touching their surface) to clean them is a good one and many people do from time to time. Some people even use a small quantity of bleach dissolved in the water - leaving the record there for 2 hours. Others use only distilled water.

If bathing a vinyl record does not remove its surface noise the chances are this is due to the pH factor. Depending on the environment the surface of the record may have become electrostatically charged and this can be eliminated if the record is bathed in a solution of water and ordinary vinegar. In other cases you can try ordinary household bleach, again dissolved in the water.

In my experience vinegar dissolved in room temperature water can make a remarkable difference to eliminating the surface noise of viny records. The record immersed carefully (say in a bath) for around 2 hours. The solution should be roughly 25 grams of vinegar to 1 litre of water.

So the acidity/alkalinity of the record surface is often the reason for the record, no matter how clean, still producing an annoying lever of noise. (At another level this is static electricity). Vinegar does rectify this problem in many cases. Bleach in rarer cases. The record should of course be rinsed by room temperature water after such a bath.

The vast majority of great musical performances have of course been made using analogue technology. It has more than proved its durability. But the same cannot really be said of digital/CD technology. Described as 'virtually indestructible' we've all had discs which simply refuse to play or cases where a disc has eventually been damaged. If CD's can last, say, 20 years, that will be cause for celebration. But I think the technology was certainly not designed principally with music listening in mind. Again, to me, it's a question of quality of sound, and I don't personally think this is a wholly subjective issue. The interactions between different frequencies are quite faithfully maintained in analogue recordings but far less so in digital technology. But its convenience is indisputable.

Quite simply, the vast majority of great performances are on analogue. I don't want to see these records disappear without giving a home to at least some of them.

Regards

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:


Quite simply, the vast majority of great performances are on analogue. I don't want to see these records disappear without giving a home to at least some of them.

Regards

Only if you like old-school rendition's of classical music. The vast majority of my recordings are digital. All this time pouring water, vinegar, baby oil or whatever on the vinyl is just too much. The pros of CD easily outweigh the cons, at least with classical music. I had a vinyl version by DG of the Missa Solemnis and the recording levels were all over the place - reduced to accommodate the loud choruses then boosted during the quieter passages with the soloists, all because of the limitations of the technology.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[robert newman]

Hi Rod,

I take your point but in such cases the problem is with the sound engineers and not with the analogue technology.

Regards

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Hi Rod,

I take your point but in such cases the problem is with the sound engineers and not with the analogue technology.

Regards

I understand because there are recording level issues plague many modern CDs I have, relating to extracts from different recording sessions being bundled together. But with regard to recording level there are issues with vinyl you don't get with CDs - for example recall a track on a 12inch 45 always sounded much louder and was of a much superior sound quality than the same track on an album.

Also I recall that the tracks at the beginning of a vinyl album always sounded louder than those towards the centre of the disk, be it rock or classical.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[robert newman]

I really haven't come across that comment before. But I did once meet a BBC sound engineer (who lived in Harrow, North London). He told me that the job of a sound engineer was crucial in the making of a vinyl recording and that issues of volume etc. were very much down to the skill of the engineer working within the limitations of the acoustics. Still, I appreciate your view, as usual.

Regards

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Thanks Sorrano.

I mean (In question 3) do you know of non-digital recordings of music that you prefer to digital ones ?

Thanks

I've gotten rid of all my records (*gasp*) due to faulty record players and the need to move on. There are some recordings I would like to see digitized, but if they are not it is more due to the rarity of the works. Sorry if this does not answer your question.

[robert newman]

Thanks Sorrano

Robert

[Geratlas]

Honours Robert, here come from my humble self, new answers to old questions.

1 If you hear one of your favourite musical works being played somewhere does it stop you doing what you are doing ?
Answer) Yes most certainly. In general that is but for the moment, though I do not like to neglect great music. Contrariwise, as happens when in a music store playing (instrumental) music of such tone poets like Schubert, Beethoven, or Brahms; I always find the time to stay just to listen out the piece.

2. If you are listening to a piece of music with a friend who talks during its performance do you get mad ?
Answer) No; Actually I would rather enjoy and give thanks to my friend for being so impatient to praise my music (and me, for playing it most excellently with appropriate expression)!

3. Are there some recordings you have of works which are relatively poor in sound quality (perhaps damaged vinyl recordings) which you think can never be bettered by the latest digital releases ?
Answer) Nyeso? - Lt's say I might have... Unkn wing.

4. If you are away from music for a few weeks (say on a camping holiday, for example) and then listen to some of your favourite music, do you hear it differently ?
Answer) By this time I have revisited their specific sphere often, and regularly enough to quickly tune in, or to say: pick up its scent, and go from there. Every hearing is slightly different from time to time though, also mirrored by ones own mood &ceteras., but this has not to a lesser degree to do with geography or outer circumstancies. However I must say: I hear the music 'much better ' when completely relaxed, or when breathing fresh air, and feeling sunshine brushing my eyelids.

5. Do you think the recommendations of friends have been influential in you deciding which musical works (and which composers) you love ?
Answer) Not for 12 years at the least. (I'm almost 21!) However, if it were not for our esteemable Rod, I would still linger in the dark, far from the Heavens of Handel, and indeed JS Bach. (As late as yesterday I got hold of Handel's Harp Concerto Op.4 #6. Still I have to hear his operas, and even the Concerti grossi Op.6!)
¤ Sinc. G.

[Margaretha]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Just a short series of questions -

1. If you hear one of your favourite musical works being played somewhere does it stop you doing what you are doing ?

Absolutely! I totally hit the brakes. If I get really bored at work, sometimes I'll listen to jazz turned way down low, but with good classical or rock music, I can't concentrate on anything else.

2. If you are listening to a piece of music with a friend who talks during its performance do you get mad ?

I have never had a friend do that, but when others chatter during a piece of music, my blood pressure goes through the roof.

3. Are there some recordings you have of works which are relatively poor in sound quality (perhaps damaged vinyl recordings) which you think can never be bettered by the latest digital releases ?

Almost all of my classical is on CD. I have the vinyl for the big, pretty pictures on the covers. I have hundreds of rock albums (very worn) that I don't think can be bettered by digital, but I love CD's for the convenience. Dear God how I love to skip tracks!

4. If you are away from music for a few weeks (say on a camping holiday, for example) and then listen to some of your favourite music, do you hear it differently ?

Yes, yes, yes! And the stuff I'm familiar with sounds even better.

5. Do you think the recommendations of friends have been influential in you deciding which musical works (and which composers) you love ?

Most of what has been recommended to me has been rock music and not too much of that has influenced me. I am very influenced by hearing something live. I'm very picky and must have an oddly wired brain. The best recommendation I've ever had was from Rod for the Beethoven Symphonies by the Hanover Band.

Thanks

Thank you!

[robert newman]

Thank you very much Geratlas. Really appreciate these answers.

[robert newman]

Thank you Margaretha. Very nice of you to share this.

[cosplusisin]

Originally posted by robert newman:

1. If you hear one of your favourite musical works being played somewhere does it stop you doing what you are doing ?

Yes, usually, unless I'm already listening to something passively (a bad habit).

2. If you are listening to a piece of music with a friend who talks during its performance do you get mad ?

I can get quite annoyed, yes. "shhhh!!!"

3. Are there some recordings you have of works which are relatively poor in sound quality (perhaps damaged vinyl recordings) which you think can never be bettered by the latest digital releases ?

No, all my music is on CD. I don't have a very good record player.

4. If you are away from music for a few weeks (say on a camping holiday, for example) and then listen to some of your favourite music, do you hear it differently ?

Yes, and it's awesome. Refreshing, as someone already said. I do this sort of thing on purpose, on an "occasional" basis. Sometimes with a whole style of music for a while, or sometimes all music in general. It's always so nice to get back to it.

5. Do you think the recommendations of friends have been influential in you deciding which musical works (and which composers) you love ?

Yes, and my friends and I are equal in that regard. We exchange musical tastes. Making CDs for each other and saying, "hey, you gotta hear _______, it's so good!"

I want to add a question, which is, "how many hours per day (or week or month) do you spend listening to music while doing nothing else?"

For example, me, I'm listening to music about 80% of my waking life, but so often, I'm doing other things. Driving, typing, reading, working.... I probably only sit and listen about 3 hours a week or so. Although I play music usually maybe 5 hours a week, so I guess that counts, since I'm listening and not doing anything else. But this is what I meant in my answer to the first question about "passively" listening to music. I've go to LISTEN to music more often.

[robert newman]

Thanks Cosplusisin !

[Michael]

Originally posted by Rod:
[B. But with regard to recording level there are issues with vinyl you don't get with CDs - for example recall a track on a 12inch 45 always sounded much louder and was of a much superior sound quality than the same track on an album.

Also I recall that the tracks at the beginning of a vinyl album always sounded louder than those towards the centre of the disk, be it rock or classical.

[/B]

In fact, towards the end of the vinyl period, the record companies brought out a selection of classical works on twelve-inch vinyl that ran at 45 rpm and the improvement in sound was amazing. Unfortunately, they only ran for 15 or 20 minutes so longer works were out, unless you wanted to go back to the old days when the Ninth Symphony took four discs or more.
It was and is a well-known problem that the beginning of a vinyl disc sounded better than the end due to the fact that the turntable was spinning faster at its outer edge than at its centre and no way has ever been found to get around that fundamental fact. It is known as end-of-side distortion and was another reason why I eventually preferred CD.
Just to mention another problem that, I think, Robert, referred to: In over twenty years of vinyl collecting, I found that less than a third of them played perfectly. No matter what care I took with them, most of them had problems regarding background noise, distortion and physical warping of the disc itself. I had very good analogue equipment but the quality control of the pressings was abysmal.
Now, I have close to a thousand CD's and I swear I can only think of TWO at the most that can be described as faulty!!! A few others that once gave trouble now play perfectly on more modern CD players. I may be misssing some of the finer points of vinyl but I never could hear them anyway through all the bloody noise.

Michael

[atserriotserri]

Robert,
I was at the store where I bought my amp, etc..., and mentioned I we were having this record vs. cd discussion on a internet forum. The boss told me that even a japanese manufacturer developed a record turn table that uses laser beams instead of needle, so there is no physical contact contact with the vynil, among other products (http://www.elpj.com/).