Authentic Instrument mp3s - Diabelli Variations Op.120

[Peter]

Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Now available to members at www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/authentic.html

Some of the better moments from Komen's CD. In my opinion these variations separate the men from the boys. Komen accommodates himself quite well with some of the sonatas which I have on other CDs, but he is very dissappointing with the variations, two thirds of which he missjudges his interpretation. I still keep my CD by Bernard Roberts on Nimbus on modern piano because, the theme aside which he plays half tempo, all of the variations he judges to perfection the mood and the tempo - more so than any other performance I have heard by more big name players. However the Graf fortepiano sounds fantastic with this music as you will hear from the tracks.

For once I agree with Brendel, these variations are the greatest piece of music ever written for the piano.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-23-2006).]

[Chris]

Thanks, Rod, very enjoyable. Is it me or is there more reverb in there than in most fortepiano recordings?

[Rod]

It depends on the accoustic (unless the engineers artificially add reverb). I have some recordings with far more reverb than this one.

I think Komen rushes the fugue a little, but the Graf sounds far more dramatic than any modern instrument.



[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-24-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by Rod:


For once I agree with Brendel, these variations are the greatest piece of music ever written for the piano.

Does anyone here disagree with Brendel?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[atserriotserri]

Originally posted by Rod:
Does anyone here disagree with Brendel?

No:
“For, so the audience reckons, a pianist who champions Liszt cannot be taken seriously as an interpreter of the Classics. People forget that Liszt himself was the foremost Beethoven interpreter of his century. It would be more to the point if they were to adopt the opposite approach and accept as an outstanding Liszt player only a pianist who has proved his competence in the interpretation of Classical masterpieces.”
A. Brendel, "Liszt Misunderstood", 1976.

[Rod]

Originally posted by atserriotserri:
No:
“For, so the audience reckons, a pianist who champions Liszt cannot be taken seriously as an interpreter of the Classics. People forget that Liszt himself was the foremost Beethoven interpreter of his century. It would be more to the point if they were to adopt the opposite approach and accept as an outstanding Liszt player only a pianist who has proved his competence in the interpretation of Classical masterpieces.”
A. Brendel, "Liszt Misunderstood", 1976.

I am aware of the connection between Liszt and Beethoven, however I was thinking of Brendel's statement regarding the Variations being the greatest piece of piano music ever written (something I've said myself a few times).

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Chris]

Well, I'd say only Beethoven's final piano sonatas could compete.

[gprengel]

As for me I adore very much the Bach-like 24th variation, this is absolutely heavenly! And the wonderful last variations crowned by the great fugue. But in the whole I must admit that I enjoy his c-minor variations WoO 80 more. So I never would say that the Diablelli variations are the best piano works - these to mee definitely are the sonatas op. 106, 109, 110 and 111 and Schubert's last 3 sonatats.

[Peter]

Originally posted by gprengel:
As for me I adore very much the Bach-like 24th variation, this is absolutely heavenly! And the wonderful last variations crowned by the great fugue. But in the whole I must admit that I enjoy his c-minor variations WoO 80 more. So I never would say that the Diablelli variations are the best piano works - these to mee definitely are the sonatas op. 106, 109, 110 and 111 and Schubert's last 3 sonatats.

I agree with your selection of sonatas, that Schubert Bb especially has to rank amongst the top. Amazing though how so many of Beethoven's works, regardless of genre are always amongst the greatest.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by gprengel:
As for me I adore very much the Bach-like 24th variation, this is absolutely heavenly! And the wonderful last variations crowned by the great fugue. But in the whole I must admit that I enjoy his c-minor variations WoO 80 more. So I never would say that the Diablelli variations are the best piano works - these to mee definitely are the sonatas op. 106, 109, 110 and 111 and Schubert's last 3 sonatats.

WoO80 is a deliberate throw-back to the 'chacone' style of variation, I would say the Dabelli are a vastly more serious more challenging work, event by the standards of B's last sonatas.

Whilst I can accept Beethoven being bettered by Beethoven, I've found the Schubert music very frustrating from what I have heard, a patchwork quilt of styles and ideas that don't really gell, as one (i.e. me) often finds with Schubert's instrumental music.


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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-27-2006).]

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
WoO is a deliberate throw-back to the 'chacone' style of variation, I would say the Dabelli are a vastly more serious more challenging work, event by the standards of B's last sonatas.

Whilst I can accept Beethoven being bettered by Beethoven, I've found the Schubert music very frustrating from what I have heard, a patchwork quilt of styles and ideas that don't really gell, as one (i.e. me) often finds with Schubert's instrumental music.

That Schubert wasn't so great a master of form as Beethoven is understandable given his premature death, but the maturity and emotional range of his last works reveal a composer of great genius and poetic sensibility.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
That Schubert wasn't so great a master of form as Beethoven is understandable given his premature death, but the maturity and emotional range of his last works reveal a composer of great genius and poetic sensibility.

Well you know where I stand on this issue. Schubert was poetic I accept, but he needed to me more organised, musically speaking, from my point of view.

But back to the Diabelli, I think this music is underrated, bizarre as that may sound (to my self cetainly). have you any thoughts as to why Brendel (and humble me, but stick to Brendel) rates it so highly?

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[Peter]

Originally posted by Rod:
Well you know where I stand on this issue. Schubert was poetic I accept, but he needed to me more organised, musically speaking, from my point of view.

But back to the Diabelli, I think this music is underrated, bizarre as that may sound (to my self cetainly). have you any thoughts as to why Brendel (and humble me, but stick to Brendel) rates it so highly?

Well Brendel is of course not the only musician to rate this work so highly. Variation form was an ideal vehichle for Beethoven to express his inexhaustible imagination - as a supreme improvisor this came naturally to him. The Diabelli variations perhaps more so than even the Hammerklavier push the pianist to the very limit, surely Beethoven couldn't himself have played them in his advanced state of deafness? Indeed I wonder who first championed this work as it would have taken a virtuoso of Liszt's stature, but I don't recall him programing the Diabelli.

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'Man know thyself'

[Rod]

Originally posted by Peter:
Well Brendel is of course not the only musician to rate this work so highly. Variation form was an ideal vehichle for Beethoven to express his inexhaustible imagination - as a supreme improvisor this came naturally to him. The Diabelli variations perhaps more so than even the Hammerklavier push the pianist to the very limit, surely Beethoven couldn't himself have played them in his advanced state of deafness? Indeed I wonder who first championed this work as it would have taken a virtuoso of Liszt's stature, but I don't recall him programing the Diabelli.

I agree Beethoven would have had a hard time playing the music effectively, to say the least, but you raise a good point about who 'championed' this piece. It's something worth looking into.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin