Mahler The Boring

[MusicallyInclined]

There's that famous exchange between Sibelius and Mahler in which the later said that a symphony must be like that world--"it must embrace everything." Yet Mahler bores me like no other composer bores me. His colleague Sibelius is one of my favorite composers--yet with Mahler I feel that he just blares on and on, trying to embrace the world yet rarely getting anywhere. I am familiar with his 4th, 5th and 7th symphonies and have recently bought his 1st and had a similar reaction. Am I wrong on Mahler or does anybody else here share my sentiments?

[This message has been edited by MusicallyInclined (edited 04-17-2006).]

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by MusicallyInclined:
There's that famous exchange between Sibelius and Mahler in which the later said that a symphony must be like that world--"it must embrace everything." Yet Mahler bores me like no other composer bores me. His colleague Sibelius is one of my favorite composers--yet with Mahler I feel that he just blares on and on, trying to embrace the world yet rarely getting anywhere. I am familiar with his 4th, 5th and 7th symphonies and have recently bought his 1st and had a similar reaction. Am I wrong on Mahler or does anybody else here share my sentiments?

[This message has been edited by MusicallyInclined (edited 04-17-2006).]

As is often with certain foods, I think that Mahler is an acquired taste. Those that dislike him tend to dislike him very much. Those that do like him tend to be fanatical. Personally, I like his 1st, 2nd, and 8th Symphonies fairly well, but the music generally does not interest me as much as other composers of his own time period. Like you, I prefer Sibelius. I think the same thing is often true of Bruckner, as well, and I tend to be one of the more fanaticals.

[HaydnFan]

I am actually one of those who doesn't mind Mahler (from what I have heard) but I'm not crazy about him either. I don't find his music boring, just a little obtrusive sometimes...how a composer believes music can encompass the entire world is beyond me, is this not an un-reachable goal?

However, I have to admit that the final movement from Beethoven's 6th seems to embrace the whole world (at least for me) in a very meaningful way; the same is true for the second movement of Mozart's Clarinet Concerto in A (for me, a quiet reflection on humanity but maybe this thought comes into my head purely because of his death soon after writing it).

[robert newman]

Mahler's music is often disliked by those who first hear it. I think part of the reason is that we tend to develop a 'sweet tooth' by listening a great deal to the traditional composers. (At least that was true for me). It sometimes fails to entertain us so we describe it as boring etc. But in another way it represents almost the very end of what is possible with an orchestra.

There are great long slow movements which are wonderful and other movements which are parodies of street life, smoky cafes and the gritty side of life. His music can be overwhelmingly wonderful. Perhaps his first symphony and his fourth symphony are the most easily accessible. But it's true that people often say, 'why must Mahler give us his entire life story every time he speaks ?' and things like that.

The works of Shostakovitch can have a similar effect.

But for sheer beauty of sound and as an example of great originality I think Mahler's very first symphony is quite marvellous. He plumbs the depths of human experience but never forces us with his own solutions.

Rgds

[Peter]

Originally posted by MusicallyInclined:
There's that famous exchange between Sibelius and Mahler in which the later said that a symphony must be like that world--"it must embrace everything." Yet Mahler bores me like no other composer bores me. His colleague Sibelius is one of my favorite composers--yet with Mahler I feel that he just blares on and on, trying to embrace the world yet rarely getting anywhere. I am familiar with his 4th, 5th and 7th symphonies and have recently bought his 1st and had a similar reaction. Am I wrong on Mahler or does anybody else here share my sentiments?

[This message has been edited by MusicallyInclined (edited 04-17-2006).]

I don't think you can be said to be wrong if that is the effect Mahler has on you - the only thing I would say is that over time one's perceptions of music do change. However you seem to have given Mahler a good try and still react the same so he isn't hitting the right buttons for you. I go through Mahler phases but admittedly they don't last as long as his symphonies! For me his greatest symphony is the 6th - I even prefer the slow movement to the famous overplayed adagietto from the 5th.

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'Man know thyself'

[Ateach Asc]

Originally posted by MusicallyInclined:
Yet Mahler bores me like no other composer bores me. His colleague Sibelius is one of my favorite composers

Most of us have different musical preferences and the reasons why we might prefer one particular work over another would probably make for lengthy and very dreary psychological reports.

Neither Mahler nor Siebelius rate among my personal musical preferences. Both to me seem to be so incredibly tedious and artificially cerebral in their musical outputs.

Nonetheless, Mahler's first 2 symphonies are in my faves, as well as that last movement of his 5th symphony, which appears to satirize some of the great works preceding.

As for Siebelius, I've really only been able to thoroughly enjoy the 1st, 3rd, and 4th movements of his 2nd symphony. I've tried some of his other works, and while they're nice, have not been able to enjoy them.

When it comes to the works of Beethoven, there are a number that I do not particularly like. These works include the arrangements of the Scottish folk songs and (please forgive me for saying this) much of the opera Fidelio.

But as the French are wont to say chacun a son gout.




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Must it be? It must be!

[Rod]

Originally posted by Ateach Asc:

These works include the arrangements of the Scottish folk songs and (please forgive me for saying this) much of the opera Fidelio.

But as the French are wont to say chacun a son gout.

Did you not hear the Scottish songs at the mp3 page? I think it almost impossibe to 'not like' this music when it's played correctly.

Whilst on that point, the first recording I had of Fidelio I did not like, but by that stage I knew it must be because the performace was a totally lame post-war Germanic school interpretation, and not the music itself. The recording in question was the famous one by Klemperer on EMI, recommended as the best by all reviewers. Of course I should have guessed that these reviews were nonsensical claptrap writen by tired old men who were born covered in dust and cobwebs. The reality is that Fidelio is unsurpassed as an opera when it is performed in the true Beethovenian spirit.

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"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[This message has been edited by Rod (edited 04-17-2006).]

[Chaszz]

Originally posted by Ateach Asc:

Most of us have different musical preferences and the reasons why we might prefer one particular work over another would probably make for lengthy and very dreary psychological reports.

Neither Mahler nor Siebelius rate among my personal musical preferences. Both to me seem to be so incredibly tedious and artificially cerebral in their musical outputs.

Nonetheless, Mahler's first 2 symphonies are in my faves, as well as that last movement of his 5th symphony, which appears to satirize some of the great works preceding.

As for Siebelius, I've really only been able to thoroughly enjoy the 1st, 3rd, and 4th movements of his 2nd symphony. I've tried some of his other works, and while they're nice, have not been able to enjoy them.

When it comes to the works of Beethoven, there are a number that I do not particularly like. These works include the arrangements of the Scottish folk songs and (please forgive me for saying this) much of the opera Fidelio.

But as the French are wont to say chacun a son gout.

Ateach Asc, from my own personal point of view, you are a good example that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The folk song settings and Fidelio are among my favorite works of Beethoven. But each to his own.

Have you tried the Sibelius Violin Concerto?
An uncharacteristic work of his, very passionate, IMHO one of the greatrest violin concertos.

For Mahler, those who dislike him might try the Kindertotenlieder song cycle. Sublime. And I find the Ninth Symphony very powerful and beautiful.

[gprengel]

As for me, I find most works by Mahler also rather boring, but on the other hand there are a few movements (mostly Adagios) that are the greatest musical achievements of all literature, comparable only to the late Beethoven:

Symphony Nr 2, especially mov. 2 and 4
symphony Nr 3, mov. 4 and 6 (Adagio!!!!)
symphony Nr 5, mov. 1
symphony Nr 6, mov. 3 (Andante!!!!)
symphony Nr 9, mov. 4 (Adagio!!!!)
symphony Nr 10, Finale (Adagio)

Gerd

[MusicallyInclined]

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[This message has been edited by MusicallyInclined (edited 04-20-2006).]

[Ateach Asc]

Originally posted by Chaszz:
Ateach Asc, from my own personal point of view, you are a good example that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The folk song settings and Fidelio are among my favorite works of Beethoven. But each to his own.

Have you tried the Sibelius Violin Concerto?
An uncharacteristic work of his, very passionate, IMHO one of the greatrest violin concertos.

Chaszz... You have exquisite musical taste and sensitivities. You are absolutely right about the Siebelius Violin Concerto...



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Must it be? It must be!