For Robert.

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:
...but I have not known a case where this has occurred with two different logging in names to a Beethoven website.

I do. When I was moderator at the Beethoven forum at Edepot a number of years ago, then the best such forum on the net but now defunked, this happened on more than one occasion.


------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[robert newman]

Then Rod, you must pursue your theory. But I must say that to accuse the Administrators of duplicity and even to overlook my honest explanation for two logging in names (which the website can see is to the same ISBN) seems to me a real weakness. Still, I wish you well.

P.S. The apparent contradiction in saying that I would post nothing more on Mozart beyond the Figaro matter is no contradiction at all. I aim to post my last on Figaro early next week as explained here today. Prior to that time I'm not in contradiction.


[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 04-06-2006).]

[Rod]

Originally posted by robert newman:
Then Rod, you must pursue your theory. But I must say that to accuse the Administrators of duplicity and even to overlook my honest explanation for two logging in names (which the website can see is to the same ISBN) seems to me a real weakness. Still, I wish you well.



[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 04-06-2006).]

I have no theory about you, I was stating a simple fact from my experience. I'm not the moderator here. To be honest I do not read some of your posts because they are simply too long for this medium. I recommend you become more concise with your point-making, this will benefit all concerned.

------------------
"If I were but of noble birth..." - Rod Corkin

[robert newman]

Fine. Postings on a forum are not an ideal way of dealing with what's really a big subject. Sentences are often padded because there are other things that could be said/presented that are not. The alternative is to have short, choppy blocks of facts with no reasoning and no clear or apparent linkage. It's definitely a comprimise. But I will try to improve.

[Frank H]

Originally posted by robert newman:
P.S. The apparent contradiction in saying that I would post nothing more on Mozart beyond the Figaro matter is no contradiction at all. I aim to post my last on Figaro early next week as explained here today. Prior to that time I'm not in contradiction.
(edited 04-06-2006).]

Oh dear, I thought the obvious reading of that promise from “Robert Newman” was too good to be true. I now expect the Figaro thread to be extended indefinitely, and while it exists of course “Robert Newman” will use it as an excuse to continue starting more new threads on “Mozart” – another has already appeared today!

This must be the lawyer-loving version of “Robert”, since this sort of dissimulation is so typical of the sort of mentality which loves twisting words to mean anything it likes. Actually it’s even more typical of politicians than of lawyers – did anyone in the UK see Tessa Jowell on the TV the other day? Why won’t politicians ever give a straight answer to anything?

[This message has been edited by Frank H (edited 04-07-2006).]

[Frank H]

Originally posted by Peter:
My goodness - a brilliant post that has convinced me that I don't exist!
In fact I am really none other than Luchesi - I faked my death, have somehow survived a few hundred years and now I'm up to get Mozart!

Come off it, “Peter”! It’s obvious that Luchesi is a “red herring” here, put about to conceal your real identity. Besides, I have a much better candidate for the present-day Luchesi.

I previously established that the remarkable couple Mozart/Nissen and his wife Constanze (who managed to hoodwink everyone from 1791 onwards that Mozart had died in 1791) discovered the elixir of life – and thus are still alive today. I also established that Mozart/Nissen is now calling himself “David Roell” (but which one?), and is belatedly trying to put the record straight about Mozart and Nissen (guilty conscience?), although his honesty of course doesn’t extend to revealing that he is actually Mozart/Nissen. I further made the only too obvious identification that Constanze is now living in Australia and calling herself “Agnes Selby”, which is of course why she wrote a supposed “biography” of Constanze.

I find it totally conceivable that the elixir of life was/is also known to certain others of the Mozart’s acquaintances during that period, such as Luchesi, and of course, Antonio Salieri. I don’t think you are Luchesi because, if I remember correctly, you have posted pointing out that the known music of Luchesi is distinctly inferior to that attributed to “Mozart”, and therefore Mozart’s music was not likely to have been written by Luchesi. (On the other hand, if I were determined to believe that you are Luchesi, I would regard those comments equally as proof of that, explaining them as deliberate obfuscations!). But no, the obvious candidate for Luchesi is Giorgio Taboga, who attributes so many of Mozart’s finest works to Luchesi..

You, on the other hand, must be Antonio Salieri. This would explain why on the one hand you clearly admire Mozart’s music, while on the other hand, the various “Robert Newman” posters, human and computer-generated by yourself, are made to undermine Mozart’s reputation – but never in a truly convincing way. This surely encapsulates the known complex and inconsistent relationship between Mozart and Salieri!

So, Antonio Salieri, you have been found out! As for your remote hilly hideaway, I suspect it is not in the picturesque village of Steyning, West Sussex, but in the picturesque little town of Corleone, Sicily. Anyone who has seen the “Godfather” films will know about the very close links between the music world and the M****!

[Note to the M****. I haven’t given away the whereabouts of the elixir of life, and in any case, I am not who I appear to be, so don’t try to find me]

[robert newman]

Dear Frank,

I think that Peter, myself and others here have a sense of humour as you do. But I tend to take you less seriously if this becomes the main feature of your posts.

[Frank H]

Originally posted by robert newman:


Dear Frank,

I think that Peter, myself and others here have a sense of humour as you do. But I tend to take you less seriously if this becomes the main feature of your posts.

Well, if Peter objects, I'll certainly have to take him seriously !

[agent-K007]

Originally posted by Frank H:

Dear All

A few weeks ago, I found compelling evidence that the poster posting as “Droell” was (at least) two people, not one.

I now believe I have found overwhelming evidence that “Robert Newman” is a composite.

In the thread "'Le Nozze di Figaro' and the 'Mozart' Violin Concertos" I pointed out that “Robert Newman” was very keen on the model of an adversarial law court, with himself as an advocate, i.e. a lawyer on behalf of what he regards as the “right” side. I pointed out that this is an inappropriate way of acting in a field of (supposedly) scholarly research. The reply from “Robert Newman” was, as expected, forthright – he clearly thinks that a disputative lawyer is a good way for a scholar to behave.

However, in this thread “For Robert”, a poster called “Robert Newman” writes this in response to a post by Agnes Selby.: “Your track record on this forum for answering straight questions is not good. Had you not told me you were a lawyer would it ever have occurred to me?”

Note firstly the insulting tone of the post, so at odds with the cultured tone of some of the posts of “Robert Newman”. Note also the accusation of bad track record on answering questions, when of course “Robert Newman” is actually by far the worst culprit, in not answering the real questions, such as “Where is your real, scientific evidence?”.

But note especially that this version of “Robert Newman” has so low an opinion of lawyers that he uses the fact that Agnes is a lawyer as an insult!

The massive inconsistencies here immediately suggest that we are dealing with (at least) two persons.

Then further down this thread, “Robert Newman” writes “I'll finish the thread on Figaro and that will be it as far as internet posts on Mozart is concerned.”

Yet more posts by “Robert Newman” have appeared on THIS thread, including another insulting (to Agnes) one.

What these inconsistencies in the official version of the existence of “Robert Newman” suggest, is that there are at least two individuals involved. One approves of scholars behaving like lawyers, the other uses lawyer as a term of insult. One promises that there will be no more internet posts on Mozart except on the Figaro thread. The other immediately breaks the promise. One is a gentleman. The other trades in ad hominem insults. And so on.

However the situation may be even more complex!!!

In a post in the Figaro thread in reply to Chaszz posted 04-04-2006 01:37 PM, “Robert Newman” first writes: “I mean, you don't say I'm guilty of prejudging the very case I'm trying to present. For this you deserve thanks …”

It is clear that here “Robert Newman” thanks Chaszz for not saying that “Robert” is guilty of prejudging the case. Thus, here, prejudging a case is a “Bad” thing.

Or is it? Only a few sentences later, “Robert” writes: “I openly confess I've prejudged this issue as much as you yourself and am glad of it.” Here apparently, prejudging is a “Good” thing of which “Robert” is proud!!!

Inconsistencies between posts can easily be explained by multiple persona. Inconsistencies within posts are much harder to explain in this way.

Of course, it might be that the particular powerful conspiracy which is covering up the existence of multiple “Robert Newman”s, has a way of combining the contributions of the two in one post. I’m sure that is not beyond their power.

But, using “Occam’s Razor”, perhaps a simpler explanation is that this version of “Robert Newman” is actually a computer, programmed to, among other things, react somewhat negatively whenever it comes across the word “Mozart”. The fact that it comes up with inconsistencies within posts suggests that the programmer may not be entirely competent. Alternatively, a random malfunction may have developed in the hard drive, as with the computer “Hal” in the film "2001".

I think it unlikely that the computer version of “Robert Newman” is responsible for all the posts. My argument for this is that some of the posts clearly come from a highly intelligent, well read, person. Also, the conspirators responsible for all this might sometimes need to produce a flesh-and-blood “Robert” as part of the subterfuge – although it is far from certain that the one they produce will be any of the various posting “Robert Newman”s.

I am aware of the appearance of a “RE Newman”, purportedly the same as “Robert Newman” – but to fit this into the pattern would take up too much time. Suffice to say that I have my theories on this, for which I have evidence.

But who are the conspirators responsible for the “Robert Newman”s? For the “Droell”s I suggested Wal-Mart as a possibility. I won’t do so for the “Robert”s. Occam’s Razor does not apply when conspiracies are involved. Instead of “Let us not multiply conspiracies unnecessarily”, let us have conspiracies here, there, and everywhere. So I have three suggestions, in ascending order of probability.

(1) Opus Dei. Not being a Catholic, I don’t know of the precise relationship between Opus Dei and the Jesuits, but would not be surprised if these two powerful groups were deadly rivals.

(2) The Jesuits. That might seem perverse, but think of it. What better way of getting some sympathy for your organization than by disseminating unproven and unsupported accusations of wrong-doing?

(3) This Beethoven Reference Forum. Yes, my prime suspect for the guilty parties are none other than Peter and Chris!!! Or perhaps Peter by himself. After all, I have seen no evidence that Chris exists. Unless he is masquerading as one of the “Robert Newman”s.

Why would this Forum behave in this way? There are only too many possibilities. Perhaps there is a competition between the various music forums as to who can produce the greatest amount of verbiage? Well, I’m sure this has got the Mozartforum, the Completely Berlioz forum, the Classical Music Guides Forum, the We Love Andrew Lloyd-Webber forum, etc.etc.etc. well and truly stuffed!

But perhaps there is another agenda? Perhaps this is all a cover-up for much more sinister goings on, connected with Al-Qaeda, Bird Flu, the World Cup etc.?

Peter, you have been unmasked! Steyning, West Sussex, will no longer be a safe hideaway for you – although of course the strong possibility is that you were never there in the first place.

[This message has been edited by Frank H (edited 04-06-2006).]

Bravissimo! Dearest, most beloved Frank---

As some of you known, I, Special Agent K.007 (known in a former existance as W.A.Mozart, but who is in fact now alive and well and living in Cyberspace) is an expert on composite personalities based on non-existant persons! One needs only to inspect my top secret K.007 pages over at http://www.themozartcafe.netthe Mozart Cafe</a>, and you will understand (if you do not already) all about life in Cyberspace, about the terrible Sphinxoids among us, and more.

I believe you've discovered the secret: that Herr Newman is not a real person at all, but a conspiracy of Sphinxoids. The real Robert is a very nice man, and would not like to be thought of as a Conspiracy theorist, of which this world has far too many. Likewise, the Lawyer known as Agnes must also by a Sphinxoid since I know Agnes personally, she she's not a lawyer at all.

That's what is so useful about being a secret agent of the Society of Horus, because I know all and see all; and whikle for the most part i sit back, smile, and listen, I call a Sphinxoid when I see one! I purpose that some day the Masons will contact you and induct you into the honorable Society of Horus so that you, too, will have a license to kill with absurdity, and will also take the oath to defend and protect the Unenlightened.

Special Agent K.007,
Society of Horus...
"Sworn to Defend and protect the unenlightened"

[This message has been edited by agent-K007 (edited 04-16-2006).]

[ASSelby]

Originally posted by agent-K007:

Bravissimo! Dearest, most beloved Frank---

As some of you known, I, Special Agent K.007 (known in a former existance as W.A.Mozart, but who is in fact now alive and well and living in Cyberspace) is an expert on composite personalities based on non-existant persons! One needs only to inspect my top secret K.007 pages over at http://www.themozartcafe.netthe Mozart Cafe</a>, and you will understand (if you do not already) all about life in Cyberspace, about the terrible Sphinxoids among us, and more.

I believe you've discovered the secret: that Herr Newman is not a real person at all, but a conspiracy of Sphinxoids. The real Robert is a very nice man, and would not like to be thought of as a Conspiracy theorist, of which this world has far too many. Likewise, the Lawyer known as Agnes must also by a Sphinxoid since I know Agnes personally, she she's not a lawyer at all.

That's what is so useful about being a secret agent of the Society of Horus, because I know all and see all; and whikle for the most part i sit back, smile, and listen, I call a Sphinxoid when I see one! I purpose that some day the Masons will contact you and induct you into the honorable Society of Horus so that you, too, will have a license to kill with absurdity, and will also take the oath to defend and protect the Unenlightened.

Special Agent K.007,
Society of Horus...
"Sworn to Defend and protect the unenlightened"

[This message has been edited by agent-K007 (edited 04-16-2006).]

-----------

Oh, dear my cover is gone. Beloved Agent 007. In my boredom in Philadelphia, being there without my beloved Australia and having to spend almost 10 years without seeing a single kangaroo, I did in fact get a law degree at Villanova University. It does not do me much good in Sydney, but it was fun while it lasted.

Law is a funny thing. To be able to practice in Sydney, it would require
a few more years of study as Australia does not practice Westminster Law. Pennsylvania on the other hand, does. It is all very interesting but then Beethoven and Mozart are more so.

Love,
Agnes.

[robert newman]

Dear Special Agent 007,

'Parallel universe' comes to mind when I read your letters. To say that I don't have a 'real existence' begs the question of whether you believe I have existence at all. I mean, is it possible to believe, for example, that God exists while denying he has 'real' existence ? It's this distinction between reality and existence that can be turned back upon all of us including your goodself/goodselves isn't that so, Special Agent 007 ?

Since cyberspace is a product of the digital age one can't expect too much of it if one is , musically, an analogue person. To this extent I question your need for a 'stage name'. In the real world (I think) we see appreciate each other face to face. So the real world is best.

Speaking of this, must get a new needle soon for my record player. I have a box set of Beethoven symphonies never once played.

Regards

[agent-K007]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Dear Special Agent 007,

'Parallel universe' comes to mind when I read your letters. To say that I don't have a 'real existence' begs the question of whether you believe I have existence at all. I mean, is it possible to believe, for example, that God exists while denying he has 'real' existence ? It's this distinction between reality and existence that can be turned back upon all of us including your goodself/goodselves isn't that so, Special Agent 007 ?

Since cyberspace is a product of the digital age one can't expect too much of it if one is , musically, an analogue person. To this extent I question your need for a 'stage name'. In the real world (I think) we see appreciate each other face to face. So the real world is best.

Speaking of this, must get a new needle soon for my record player. I have a box set of Beethoven symphonies never once played.

Regards

[agent-K007]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Dear Special Agent 007,

'Parallel universe' comes to mind when I read your letters. To say that I don't have a 'real existence' begs the question of whether you believe I have existence at all. I mean, is it possible to believe, for example, that God exists while denying he has 'real' existence ? It's this distinction between reality and existence that can be turned back upon all of us including your goodself/goodselves isn't that so, Special Agent 007 ?

Since cyberspace is a product of the digital age one can't expect too much of it if one is , musically, an analogue person. To this extent I question your need for a 'stage name'. In the real world (I think) we see appreciate each other face to face. So the real world is best.

Speaking of this, must get a new needle soon for my record player. I have a box set of Beethoven symphonies never once played.

Regards

Robert...it's a joke!
8^) Daisy

[robert newman]

Yes Daisy, it's a joke of course ! I hope you had a nice Easter and that with the arrival of the sun this will be good time. A happy time.

Rgds

Robert