Beethoven and his Coffee Beans

[robert newman]

'Eine Kleine Divertimento' - the subject of Beethoven and his grinding of coffee beans. I understand from this forum that the number of beans he habitually ground was 60 (and not 16 as I previously thought).

Q1. Is 60 coffee beans a large number for the drinking habits of an average coffe drinker ?

Q2. Would these beans have been whole beans ?

Q3. Assuming Beethoven ground coffee beans (counting each one before he did so) is it logical to assume these 60 beans per grinding were exactly the right number for the great man to obtain a fixed quantity and quality of coffee each time he did so ?

Q4. Was Beethoven's coffee pot of a size that suited 60 ground coffee beans ? (I assume so, since the whole point of grinding coffee beans is to obtain fresh coffee).

and finally -

Q5. Coffee is said to keep a person awake who might otherwise fall asleep. Is it possible Beethoven knew this and drank copious quantities of coffee during the time when he was working alone ?

The subject is 'mildly' interesting (but not so much that it could be the 'grounds' - excuse the 'coffe type' puns - for debate).

R


[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 04-12-2006).]

[Anthina]

Ein kleines Divertimento indeed

Q1-being a coffee drinker myself I would say that's a large number (60 sounds like a real strong espresso to me). But there we are again, we don't know if it was one cup he was drinking or if he made 10 cups out of it.

Q2-N/A

Q3-seems likely, otherwise he would've changed his habit wouldn't he? I mean if it would've been to strong or to mild he would have added beans etc. But on the other hand maybe he was to lazy to find out the right quantity and quality (seems odd though). Or it was fashion to drink coffee made from 60 beans (but who would've cared if he would've used 62 instead?).

Q4-hm...hm..hmmmmmm..given his stature and temperament I doubt he was drinking coffee from a tiny pretty tea cup.

Q5- he probably knew it yeah..but have you thought of the result of drinking to much coffee? You might be awake but I doubt you are able to work properly.

But hang on I've just remembered the coffee culture in Vienna. You can't just order a "coffee" in Vienna..they all have their own names..so back in Beethoven's time there might have been a special kult around coffee aswell..oh I haven't got a clue robert

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*~Ja, was haben's da scho wieder gmacht, Beethoven?~*

[robert newman]

Dear Anthina,

Thank you for 'grinding out' answers to these teezers ?

Now, a further question springs to mind - in Vienna during the time when Beethoven was grinding 60 coffee beans (and when WAS that, by the way ?) I would assume the origin of the coffee would have been Turkey or perhaps Arabia.

If this makes lots of coffee, the 60 beans would have been ground then boiling water added to them in a pot which suited such a volume, before being placed on top of an oven of the old kind (fed by wood perhaps). And since it indicates he was drinking from this pot over a long period (the pot being kept warm by the stove) it seems to suggest that Beethoven's coffee drinking was a winter hobby rather than a summer one.

Total nonsense, I know !

Robert


[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 04-12-2006).]

[Anthina]

Originally posted by robert newman:
Dear Anthina,

Thank you for 'grinding out' answers to these teezers ?

Now, a further question springs to mind - in Vienna during the time when Beethoven was grinding 60 coffee beans (and when WAS that, by the way ?) I would assume the origin of the coffee would have been Turkey or perhaps Arabia.

If this makes lots of coffee, the 60 beans would have been ground then boiling water added to them in a pot which suited such a volume, before being placed on top of an oven of the old kind (fed by wood perhaps). And since it indicates he was drinking from this pot over a long period (the pot being kept warm by the stove) it seems to suggest that Beethoven's coffee drinking was a winter hobby rather than a summer one.

Total nonsense, I know !

Robert


[This message has been edited by robert newman (edited 04-12-2006).]

I'd say Arabia!

Funny the 60 bean thing came to your mind right now because yesterday I've discovered a new handwritten notice (I suppose it's newly added because I've never seen it before) in the beethoven archive of the beethoven haus and that is-GUESS WHAT-about COFFEE Yupp..so your theory about the pot on the stove sounds nice but maybe he already had a coffee machine?!?
Here the Master has some notices about a coffee machine:"Vom 23ten September / 1825 / neues privilegium / der Dampf (Kaffe) Maschi- / ne / mittelst einer / Vorricht., welche das / durch die heißen Dämpfe / aufgelösete aroma / durch löschpapier / mit solcher gewalt / durchpreße, daß auch / nicht ein Atoma / mehr in / dem ausgelaugten / Kaffepulv. / zurückbleib. / könne, wodurch / Ersparung / an Kaffe u. / Geschwindig- / keit gewon- / nen wird."


(I tried to post the link but it somehow doesn't work, sorry..and there's no english translation yet..and I can't translate beethovenian german into english..)

There's evidence he was into coffee!!

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*~Ja, was haben's da scho wieder gmacht, Beethoven?~*

[This message has been edited by Anthina (edited 04-12-2006).]

[This message has been edited by Anthina (edited 04-12-2006).]

[robert newman]

Ha ha ha ! This is so amazing !!!

Beethoven, great coffee drinker !

Anthina, Herr Ludwig van Beethoven discoverer of the 'elixir of life' and arguably the greatest composer ! A theory stumbled upon by you and me, and confirmed beyond all reasonable doubt in the fact that Herr Johann Sebastian Bach, of equal stature in tne musical cosmos, wrote a Coffee Cantata !!!!

[Michael]

Last year, during the Beethoven Experience on BBC, they broadcast a very amusing programme on Beethoven. I think it was in a series of semi-spoof documentaries called "The Mark Steel Lectures".
They portrayed the onset of his deafness by showing 216 missed calls on his mobile phone, for example.
The story of the 60 coffee beans came into it and Mark Steel wondered what would happen if you slipped him a cup with only 59 in it. Would he not notice or would the heavens crash open in C minor?

Michael

[Anthina]

Originally posted by robert newman:

Ha ha ha ! This is so amazing !!!

Beethoven, great coffee drinker !

Anthina, Herr Ludwig van Beethoven discoverer of the 'elixir of life' and arguably the greatest composer ! A theory stumbled upon by you and me, and confirmed beyond all reasonable doubt in the fact that Herr Johann Sebastian Bach, of equal stature in tne musical cosmos, wrote a Coffee Cantata !!!!

Yes, Yes, that's it, that's it. The answer to all questions, the elixir of life and music has been found. The liquid that turns you into a genius and will give you world wide success!

I am off for a coffee


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*~Ja, was haben's da scho wieder gmacht, Beethoven?~*

[robert newman]

This voucher entitles any reader to a free coffee (or tea) when in London - to be drunk in praise of Ludwig van Beethoven or Johann Sebastian Bach.