Beethoven the illegitimate son of a nobleman?

[jem]

I read the following in the notes to a recent performance I attended: "Beethoven often encouraged rumors that he was the illegitimate son of a nobleman."

Of course it is clear that there was some confusion regarding the "Van" vs. "Von" in his name and whether that signified nobility, and whether he encouraged that confusion is up to speculation. But does anyone have knowledge about the possibility that he encouraged the rumor of illigitimate nobility? That seems completely against his character, at least my understanding of his character.

[Peter]

Beethoven did encourage the view he was of the nobility by implication. In this he was found out by the Landrecht court when applying for custody of his nephew and they sent the case to the lower court. Johanna van Beethoven herself believed that her husband Carl had been of noble birth and that the documents to prove it were in the composer's possession. In the following years Beethoven never countered the reports of his Royal ancestry!

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'Man know thyself'

[jem]

My understanding was that by this time Beethoven simply didn't care what people thought anymore as there were many rumors floating around about him, and had given up trying to correct anyone's impression.

This quote that he was encouraging rumors of an illegimate birth, is, I think, a rather harsher statement. I have the reference to the quote: Jan Swafford, "Ludwig van Beethoven", Vintage guide to Classical Music, (c)1992, p. 178, but I have no access to the book.

Have you heard of this before?

[Joy]

What exactly does 'Von' and 'Van' mean? Any English word to define them? Why did Von mean nobility and Van 'common' in the first place?

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'Truth and beauty joined'

[jman]

Originally posted by Joy:
What exactly does 'Von' and 'Van' mean? Any English word to define them? Why did Von mean nobility and Van 'common' in the first place?

My understanding that von was like the English "Sir", so it's an honor bestowed upon someone by the royalty.

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by jman:
My understanding that von was like the English "Sir", so it's an honor bestowed upon someone by the royalty.

And I believe that "van" simply means "of".

[Sorrano]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
And I believe that "van" simply means "of" or "by".

[Droell]

Originally posted by Sorrano:
And I believe that "van" simply means "of".

I thought van was the Dutch version of von. As I understood it, the Beethovens had originally come from Holland. There is still today a lively traffic up & down the Rhine. Lots of Dutch who settled up river.

[Anthina]

Originally posted by Joy:
What exactly does 'Von' and 'Van' mean? Any English word to define them? Why did Von mean nobility and Van 'common' in the first place?

Well the "von" in german means indeed "of". The "von" shows basically where you are from or where your castle/house is situated. So in german you usually have names like "xy von Waldburg-Zeil" or "xy von Sachsen" showing where you live or where your ancestors lived. But I believe they are all noble or at least HAVE been noble in past times and carry on the name. (I've got a "von" in my name aswell but I am not noble..might have been in the past).
The "van" is dutch and I know a couple of "van's", I am not sure but I think the van is similar to the dutch "de" (like "xy de Haas") and "de" is not noble.




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*~Ja, was haben's da scho wieder gmacht, Beethoven?~*

[Frank H]

In the book on Beethoven by Denis Matthews (1985) it is pointed out that the "nobility" connection was "encouraged...by the confusion between the 'van' in his name and the aristocratic German "von". Unlike "von", however, "van" had no status significance, simply indicating his Flemish ancestry and harking back to a place of origin..."

This can easily be seen today, where "van" is a common feature in Dutch, Flemish, and Afrikaner surnames, whereas "von" is only found in a small minority of (mainly aristocratic) German surnames.

Frank

[DavidO]

Originally posted by Peter:
Beethoven did encourage the view he was of the nobility by implication. In this he was found out by the Landrecht court when applying for custody of his nephew and they sent the case to the lower court. Johanna van Beethoven herself believed that her husband Carl had been of noble birth and that the documents to prove it were in the composer's possession. In the following years Beethoven never countered the reports of his Royal ancestry!

You've all probably read Solomon's biography. Among all the psychobabble (as you're reading it, you begin to feel as if you were rummaging through the analyst's notes of a lifetime's worth of psychiatry sessions) is a strong sense that Beethoven delusions of nobility (Solomon frames it all in terms of a Freudian "Family Romance") stemmed from his powerful conviction that he was a demonstrably great man by virtue of not only musicial genius but also of taste, sensitivity (in the Austenian sense) & moral virtue.

Also, says Solomon, in the years following the Landrecht's dismissal of Beethoven's case, Beethoven himself "refused to permit any action to be taken to refute the proliferating reports of his royal ancestry."

He seemed genuinely convinced that he was no inkeeper, cobbler or tailor, & therefore should not have to make his appeals with the Magistrat.

You know, in a way, he was right!